> General Discussions
The Prince of Persia and the Divine Council Theory
hebrewroots98:
Great contrast Arc! Nill..how sad!!! ::)
Arthyron,
As for the issue of 'sons of God and 'daughters of men/sons of men, and how the angels relate with this..., I do not know. I do have alot of materials related to the Nephilim and sons of God, but, as of yet,I have not been able to sort it all out yet. I will one of these days hopefully., as I am very intrigued by this topic.
After browsing the web site of Dr Heisers', he has a very impressive resume' of the different number of learning institutions that he has learned and taught at. I am also amazed that he has authored such a tremendous amount of books; his books are all topics of great interest to me... mostly all of it dealing with the Old Testament and ancient times issues. He is a very accomplished scholar and very good at what he has done, however, I get the impression that he too is still in Babylon and that he is a very strong CHRISTIAN; that bothers me for a man of his caliber. I mean, he does a great job at interpretting the old testament, but, I hear very little in comparison to the New Testament interpretations. Also, I do not hear any of him giving thanks to God for making him into who he is and for giving him the knowledge that he has; infact, I see that he might even have a bit of pride for being as accomplished as he has become...as an idol in his heart of?? I know that God has not called this guy to the entire truths, but wouldn't it be great for YOU, ARTHYRON, to teach him of these ultimate biblical truths :o??
...I just have a hard time trusting ANYONE whom does not have the unity of the spirit as we have here at BT's. We have some of the WORLDS' best scholars here at BT's when in comes to discerning and interpreting the whole TRUTH from what is DECEPTION!!! (Thank you to Ray and all the Mods and members!...and yet, I do not see one ounce of boasting or puffed up- edness, all I see is humility in each scholar who is here!!!) He is interesting for sure, but, just be careful my friend in whom you trust to teach you the ultimate truth ;)
Yes, it would be nice to hear more from Ray on these very hard topics...just keep praying for him ;)
blesings,
Susan
hebrewroots98:
Hello there Diane!!! Long time no see. It is good to hear from you again; I have just gotten back onto the forum after a stint away.
I like your point of view; but as i said before, I am lost on this subject and will just have to have the Lord show me the truth in HIS timing for me...after too many years in Babylon, I still have some baggage I'm sure ;) :)!
Blessings,
Susan
Kat:
Hi Diana,
Interesting idea.
--- Quote --- So it seems possible to me that Daniel was given a prior vision of Gabriel a human messenger (since not all messengers are necessarily celestial) who was to come to him in person.
--- End quote ---
But we do know that angels appear in human form, as it is stated here also;
Dan 8:15 Then it happened, when I, Daniel, had seen the vision and was seeking the meaning, that suddenly there stood before me one having the appearance of a man.
Then there is the man voice, this is not Gabriel, maybe this is God instructing Gabriel?
Dan 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, who called, and said, "Gabriel, make this man understand the vision."
Daniel is afraid of this 'man,' as many are when an angel appears to them.
Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood, and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, "Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end."
Dan 8:18 Now, as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me, and stood me upright.
--- Quote ---I also don't think there is any scriptural proof for there being "fallen angels"....demons are spirit...not necessarily "beings"....
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure that you meant that there were no demon beings at all.
I think that there are spiritual character traits in people that is not a demon being. Like people can have a spirit of jealousy like in Num. 5:14, spirit of harlotry in Hosea 4:12, spirit of bondage in Rom. 8:15, spirit of slumber in Rom. 11:8, spirit of infirmity in Luke 13:11, or spirit of fear in 2 Tim 1:7, these are not demon beings that possess them.
But I think there are demon beings as well. As in the story in Mark 5 where Jesus saw the man at the tombs, possessed by the demon named Legion. Jesus spoke with this demon, not something you would do to a spiritual character trait of a person.
Mar 5:8 For He said to him, "Come out of the man, unclean spirit!"
Mar 5:9 Then He asked him, "What is your name?" And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion; for we are many."
Also these demons left the man and went into a herd of swine, animals can't have any kind of character traits, maybe that is why they ran in the water and drown.
Jesus also tells a parable about a unclean spirit going out a person, if it still exist outside of the person, that would seem to make it it's own being.
Luke 11:24 "When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest;
Just a few more things to think about :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Diana
Thank you for your thoughtful contribution.
To go into the discussion concerning who and who is not of the Devil....
To quote Ray from LOF part 2 quote : Jesus said, "You are of your father the Devil...?" (John 8:44). Satan the Devil has "seed"; he is a "father": a father has children and followers of like nature. http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html
Angel means messenger of God. Ray must be an Angel! :D ;D
As for "fallen" and the term and doctrine that lines up with this concept. Nothing is "fallen" that God did not cause to fall!
I like how Ray asks quote : Can the high priests of Christendom ever get anything Scripturally correct? They cite Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 They claim that a PERFECT AND GLORIOUS LIGHT-BRINGING ARCHANGEL CHANGED HIMSELF INTO SATAN THE DEVIL, whereas we just read in the divine, inspired, infallible Word of God that contrariwise, it is SATAN THE DEVIL WHO HAS TRANSFORMED HIMSELF INTO A PERFECT AND GLORIOUS ANGEL OF LIGHT! The Scriptures teach the diametric opposite from what Christendom is teaching.
It is insidious how Babylon is able to twist God's Word.
God created Satan who is a murderer from the beginning with no truth in him. Babylon teaches that an Angel made by God turned himself into Satan! Free willingly, against God's will and Sovereignty this rebellious Angel had followers who were fallen and who went against God's Plan and intentions with power that was too much for God and caught God on the wrong foot! Poor, incompetent God. He did not know this would happen and was powerless to stop it or change it or correct it according to Babylon who is now serving God to keep Him off the hook of responsibility by teaching it is mans fault and the Devil is more powerful than God who is aloof, distant, too holy and too remote for man to approach Him. Only Babylon Priests have that power.
God says differently. :)
God says Satan can transform himself into an Angel of light and that HE (The Sovereign Allmighty, All knowing GOD )made him! HE ( God) made him (Satan as His, adversary and this is )perfectly fitted to HIS (God's )own Plan and Purpose too! :)
I have never heard such a teaching ever to come out of Babylon! Don't expect to either. ;D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
jER:
An Adversary merely offers opposition, as in an opponent (enemy) and is nothing but a "contrary wind."
Therefore, who is it that acts contrary by nature, as an obstinate child, and exalts himself?
"Man will promptly defend any thought, not at variance with his expectations, nor contrary to his own interests." - JER
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