> General Discussions
demon possession
jackson:
Not to be misunderstood, I'm not trying to dicount the spirits running to and fro in this world, they are without doubt formidable. But I don't see evidence of them having "possesive" powers over man. We may be given over to them by God for sifting but we are still Gods.
As for the account of Saul and the witch, thats not really the same thing...Is it ???
skydreamers:
--- Quote ---This whole thing seems to me to be full of man made mysticism and conjecture.
--- End quote ---
I tend to agree with Jackson. I think we have been inundated with so much babylonian untruths through history that today's understanding of what demons are is vastly distorted. That is why I have a problem with seeing them as "beings". It carries with it the idea that demons are some sort of celestial creatures that can "possess" or take over a human being....as in one "being" taking over another "being".
Demons are unclean spirits and I don't think we can grasp with carnal minds what this means. It may not make any difference calling them beings or not, but in my mind I see them as representing aspects of the carnal nature, which is why it is ONLY the nature of Jesus Christ that can get rid of them. There are thousands of these aspects, some stronger than others that wreak havoc with our thinking and so yes, in that way, they can be powerful influences. But as Jackson pointed out this is something entirely different than being "possessed". That is how the KJV translates it but what they translate as demon possessed is actually one word:
daimonizomai (meaning to be under the power of a demon which is an unclean spirit)
There is some good research going on right now that is opening a whole new understanding of how our thoughts/words/perceptions alter what is happening with our bodies. Thoughts and words create frequencies and vibrations and these have been shown to actually effect our DNA. It is no wonder than that an unclean spirit affecting our thoughts in such a powerful way that this then manifests in our bodies as all sorts of physical and mental illnesses.
This is why it is so important to make every thought captive to Christ.
We are destroying speculations (imaginations) and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
2 Corinthians 10:5
This, I believe is what Dewey is doing when he calls out "get thee behind me Satan, in Jesus' name".....it's not the words so much (although the frequency of the sound of the words may indeed hold some effect) but more than that it causes his THOUGHTS to be directed to Christ and this creates a stronger frequency. It is calling upon the Christ nature within to take your unclean thoughts captive.
I have a personal experience within my family of someone having gone through a deliverance. I can tell you, to the people present it was very real. Strange voices, face altered, names being spouted out etc....I was told that the person being delivered (who is very close to me) was speaking Latin, a language that she does not know. Now when I inquired as to whether there was anyone present who could speak Latin and could verify what was being said, the answer was no one. So here's what I wonder, this friend grew up as a Catholic, and besides that in life we come into contact with so many various teachings and influences. You don't have to be super knowledgeable about something to pick and retain in your deepest memory words or images that you link to something "evil". The mind is an incredible thing. They believed she was speaking Latin even though there was really no proof...how do they know she was not speaking gibberish?
So, the deliverance was meant to heal her of a deep seated mental disorder which to this day she still has. In fact, things got progressively worse right after this supposed deliverance.
The danger I think, in these "deliverances" is in deepening these "mythological" ideas we have of demons and what kind of power they have. No matter what these deliverance ministries do, they are NOT focusing on CHRIST but on the demons themselves. Everybody knows and has experienced I'm sure, that the more we focus, think or mull over something negative the worse we feel! Not to mention that fear is increased as the idea of there being various "entities" inside controlling you is creepy! Rather than calling them out for the natures they are.
This was quite a few years ago, but my friend has recently showed signs of improvement as she studies God's truth through His word and ongoing prayer of course. The truth that God will save all has accomplished more in this girl's life than any so called deliverance procedure ever could. And this because it is the NATURE of God's character through his son Jesus Christ that is being glorified!! It's all in what NATURE you believe in. And also, it's all in God's timing.
Believing and trusting in God's sovereignty, and meditating on this, creates a frequency within which brings with it healing, even if it is slow. Repenting (changing your MIND) is what creates peace and healing ultimately. Prayer also produces frequencies, and in prayer we are "tuning in" to God. In prayer we are increasing the frequency of our spirit, the inner man, while decreasing the frequency of the flesh, the outer man.
There are many unclean spirits within all of us that need casting out by the Spirit of Christ. Anything that is contrary to the nature of Christ holds the nature of an unclean spirit. Fear is the strongest frequency for negativity (the nature of unclean spirits). But perfect Love (the nature of God) casts out fear.
And he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease." While he was still speaking, there came from the ruler's house some who said, "Your daughter is dead. Why trouble the Teacher any further?" But overhearing what they said, Jesus said to the ruler of the synagogue, "Do not fear, only believe."
Mark 5:34-36
Peace and love,
Diana
musicman:
I know one thing about demon possesion. That is that I know nothing!!
However, I feel the need to chime in on the subject because I see a problem with how demon possesion has been dealt with. First of all let's assume that these so called demonic influences are supernatural. But what are they? Are they really demons possesing and taking over someones' being? Or are they mere deceptions of the devil? Ray spoke of casting spirits out when he belonged to the ministry. Where has all casting out of demons taken place? In Babylon. Who is deceived? Why,. . . . Babylon is deceived. And can the daughters of Babylon say anything in the name of Christ? I don't think so. It appears that the devil would be more than glad to obey the false christs. I think that this is the same with so called "near death experiences". How about all of the UFO sightings? You think a priest would bother casting out ET? I just wish I knew of scripture that revealed the truth about these weird phenomena.
Kat:
I do not have any personal experience with the demon possessed. But it is a subject of interest, so I have looked to see what I could find in the Scripture.
an evil spirit, a demon, devils
G1140
daimonion
a daemonic being; by extension a deity: - devil, god.
possessed with demon/devils
G1139
daimonizomai
to be exercised by a daemon: - have a (be vexed with, be possessed with) devil (-s).
There are 12 Scripture that refer to demon-possessed (1139): Matt. 4:24; 8:16; 8:28; 8:33; 9:32; 12:22 Mark 1:32; 5:15; 5:16; 5:18 Luke 8:36 John 10:21
Mat 8:16 When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed (1139). And He cast out the spirits with a word,
In this Scripture Christ 'cast out' the demon, a common term used which is ekballō - to eject (literally or figuratively): - bring forth, cast (forth, out), drive (out), expel, leave, pluck (pull, take, thrust) out, put forth (out), send away (forth, out).
Mat 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.
Another interesting term used 'rebuked' which is epitimaō - to tax upon, that is, censure or admonish; by implication forbid: - (straitly) charge, rebuke.
To me both the terms cast out and rebuke sound like something you would use for a being.
These Scriptures below all speak of (G1140) daimonion.
This verse sounds like it is speaking of a being, that would be subject to the disciples.
Luke 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demon(1140) are subject to us in Your name."
These demons believe and tremble, how could that not be a type of being.
James 2:19 You believe that there is one God, you do well; even the demons(1140) believe and tremble.
Here Christ again rebuked the demons and would not allow them to speak. They knew Christ, this is not talking about the person possessed.
Luke 4:41 And also demons (1140) came out of many, crying out and saying, You are the Christ, the Son of God! And rebuking them, He did not allow them to speak; for they knew Him to be the Christ.
Just some things I noticed in the Scripture and thought I would share.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
John9362:
Great post Kat.......You always come through with scripture ;)
Love you guys...John
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