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Author Topic: What about Faith???  (Read 2789 times)

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kweli

  • Guest
What about Faith???
« on: January 09, 2008, 08:51:12 AM »

Hi all

I dont know how much sense there will be in this but I must say something. Dont know if I'm asking or just venting...

Upon coming to the knowledge that God is Almighty and completely in control, my prayers have been for God's Will to be done. I do this literally. When times are tough I say "may Your Will be done". When it's all great, same prayer. It has now lead me to having less faith. For instance, I dont believe something will happen, I believe God's Will will be done. On paper (or your screen) it looks grand and noble. But, especially after reading and rereading Hebrews 11, it seems faith is obedience to God. All those people obeyed God beyond what they could see (verse 1). And it pleased God (verse 6). And we are to imitate their faith (Hebrews 13:7). What about plain old-fashioned faith for, well, everything else?

What about faith that my drug-addicted cousin will be delivered? What about faith that my partner who will soon be my wife, & I ("God please will it on us"), will have a wonderful fruitful marriage without adultery/divorce? What about faith??? I know we are to set our eyes on Jesus who is the author and perfecter of our faith. When I set my eyes on Jesus I see faith that can move mountains and heal the sick.

I may not be making any sense here but I hope somebody knows what I'm on (definitely not what my cousin is on). If there was ever a thread on this, again, please do not crucify me. I'm the infant learning how to eat meat with it's bones.

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli
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Bradigans

  • Guest
Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2008, 10:02:12 AM »

Well, if you can remember. Faith is not about us and our every whim. Faith is about the directive (direction) of Christ. This is why it's called the faith of Christ.
 
- Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith (the leading, guiding, directing) of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

He's the one doing the leading, guiding, and directing. Yes, we can make our supplication and petitions known. But, first and foremost we must remember it's about His will and not ours. We have got to make sure that our attitudes, meaning that we know that it's all about Him, are right when petitioning. He's a King you know (1 Timothy 6:15, Revelation 19:16)?

We can all be quite presumptuous (importunate) at times. I know i have. I'm finding out when petitioning and making supplication, it's all in the approach. This is why we need HIS HOLY SPIRIT (Romans 8:26)

 - James 4:6 - But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 

   

IN HIS LOVE
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2008, 11:59:29 AM »


Hi kweli,

It sounds like you are saying, if you have enough faith you should be able to direct God's will  ???

Quote
What about faith that my drug-addicted cousin will be delivered? What about faith that my partner who will soon be my wife, & I ("God please will it on us"), will have a wonderful fruitful marriage without adultery/divorce? What about faith???

God already has a plan laid out for all mankind, your cousin and your marriage included.  You have to understand that whatever God is working out, it is for the good of all.
Here is a excerpt from the aritcle 'Praying by God's Rules.'

http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm ----------------------------

No man has ever in the history of the world received an answer to a prayer for something from God that God did not already have in His plan to give him. People hate the very thought of a God Who is totally and completely Sovereign, and the reason is simple. If God is Sovereign, then man has no free will that can thwart the sovereign foreknowledge of God. God cannot know for certain a future event if mankind possesses a power that can thwart Godís perfect foreknowledge. Not even most of the greatest minds in theology have thought this apparent enigma through.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

And a common though is well then why pray at all, if God is sovereign and already has everything worked out.
Here's another excerpt from this article;

------------------------------------------------------------------

When God wants to answer someoneís prayer, the first thing He will always do is inspire (cause) that person TO PRAY. How can God answer a "prayer" if someone doesnít "pray"? God can bless us and do favors for us, but God cannot answer our prayers, if we donít pray. That is why I get excited when I feel inspired to pray, as I am encouraged that God is getting ready to bless or favor me in some way.
---------------------------------------------------------------

So we should pray.  But to desire the will of God in all things, we have to except that His plan is for the best, whatever that may be.
Here is a email from Ray.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3196.0.html -----

Dear Reader:

    The Sovereignty of God is a truth that is only spiritually discerned. It appears to contradict to most people. People do not understand that all choices are CAUSED by something. No, I never said that "if you do not pray, you can CHANGE God's plan to bless you," now did I?  Whether one prays or doesn't pray, it is ALL OF GOD.  It is not within the realm of possibility to either do or not do something or anything that God has not already PRE-ordained.  You make all of your own choices, but they have all been pre-ordained.  It's not a contradiction, it is only a truth that is spiritually discerned.

    God be with you,

    Ray
-----------------------------------------------------------

I hope some of this is helpful to answer what you were searching for  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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phazel

  • Guest
Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2008, 02:32:10 PM »


The truth I see Kweli is that deliverance from our addictions and afflictions WILL happen.

But it is not necessarily when we want it to happen.   


We have to learn that everything has a season and everyone has a purpose.   We see lives everyday that seem to end being meaningless.

Truth is, they were purposed by God and when we are reconciled unto him, we are indeed delivered.


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Little Joe

  • Guest
Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2008, 03:00:19 PM »

Kweli,

Someone once told me that we don't pray to get things, but that we might know the Mind of Christ, i.e. to know His will, and God is always the initiator of true prayer.  It truly is all about Him, and not about us.  Once we realize this, it will remove a great burden.  I was listening to Ray's December bible study last night where he talks about the sabbath rest, where we cease form our own works, just as God ceased from His works of creation  on the seventh day (which is still continuing).  I think true faith is learning to partake of the sabbath rest on a daily basis, than our communion with God (prayer life) will become natural and fruitful, and God will direct our path, and actually lead us into how we should pray.

Romans 8:26 (New International Version)

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.




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Robin

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Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2008, 03:07:37 PM »

Romans 5
Peace and Joy
 1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Philippians 3:7-9
 7But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christóthe righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.



I've learned through much suffering that my faith is in Christ regardless of outward circumstances. I've learned that God is just, faithful, merciful, loving, forgiving, kind, and sovereign. I've learned that he will drag me away from anything that stands between us, which has included home, money, relationships, children, parents, family, friends, false teachings, self sufficiency, self reliance, etc..

You speak of your drug addicted cousin. I also have a son who is an addict. I've been brought to prayer for him many times. I will never forget one night. My son was sober for 3 months and started drinking and became violent. I had to lock him out of the house in the cold and it was raining all night. I tried calling the police to have him picked up to get him out of the cold, but they wouldn't take him. He rang the doorbell all night. I sat in a chair in my kitchen alone in the dark not knowing if my son would live through the night. I remember turning my heater off because I felt too guilty being warm when he was out in the cold. I was crying and suffered so much pain that night that I actually felt something within me die. A part of my heart died that night. I instantly felt peace after that. I thought of how the father must have felt giving his only son for us and had a scripture come to mind.

John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."


I started weeping and realized that a little bit of The Father's heart had been revealed to me that terrible night.

My son lived through the night. I handed him a cup of coffee and a sandwich and had to send him on his way. That was several years ago and there has been much suffering since. My son now has 10 months clean and sober.  I do not know what will happen. I do not know if it's in God's plan for my son to live or die, but I do know that God is just, faithful, merciful, loving, forgiving, kind, and sovereign. I also know that there is still much I need to learn and I  still have little faith when faced with an unknown future and life and death situations with my son. I have little faith when it comes to watching my grandchildren suffer with daily chronic migraine headaches. I find comfort knowing that God is in charge of all of it.
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Phil3:10

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Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2008, 03:32:47 PM »

Kweli,
I always go back to the definition of faith that make the most sense to me. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. We can all hope for only the best for those we care for. However, this may not be our LORD'S will at this present time. My comfort is that HIS will will be done. HIS will is perfect. He created all and HE will save all. Life is as a vapor that appears for but a short time and then vanishes. Salvation is perfection and that is what each shall find in CHRIST JESUS.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2008, 06:30:59 PM »

Kweli,
I always go back to the definition of faith that make the most sense to me. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. We can all hope for only the best for those we care for. However, this may not be our LORD'S will at this present time. My comfort is that HIS will will be done. HIS will is perfect. He created all and HE will save all. Life is as a vapor that appears for but a short time and then vanishes. Salvation is perfection and that is what each shall find in CHRIST JESUS.


Actualy that passage translated as faith being 'evidence of things not seen' is inaccurate.

Ray wrote about this mistranslation and if Kat would be so kind as to dig it up, i'm sure it will make more sence =]

I don't know where i read it, or how the passage was translated accurately but i believe the concordent translated it right.

God bless,

Alex

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2008, 07:32:53 PM »


Hi Alex,

I did find this email that goes into what you were talking about.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2910.0.html ------

Dear Doug:
You are making something difficult and mysterious out of something that is quite simple (for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear).
 
"Faith" is not a "Bible" word, or a "religious" word: it is a WORD, and it has a meaning.  Here is a definition of faith from my American Heritge College Dictionary:  "faith--1 CONFIDENT BELIEF in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.  2. BELIEF that does not REST ON LOGICAL PROOF OR MATERIAL EVIDENCE....." etc. Those are very good definitions of faith, but as one can clearly and instantly see these definitions go totally contrary to the way that the King James defines faith in Heb. 11:2, "Now faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen." Hogwash. Faith is the diametric opposite of "evidence and substance."  When one possesses absolute "substance and evidence" regarding any matter, the last thing on earth such a person needs is "faith!"
 
Just days ago I heard Rod Parsley quote that definition of faith from the King James Bible. No wonder they have not a cluse as to anything SPIRITUAL.
 
Now then, faith is a word that has a definite meaning. Muslims have "faith" in Allah, and Christians have "faith" in the "God of Abraham," and some few have "faith" in the Scriptures that tell us how we are to have faith in God.  They are all "faiths" as you suggest, so are they not all the same?  No, of course not. The qauality or kind of faith one has is graded by what that particular faith accomplishes.  Do you rely on the God you have faith in, do you live a godly life because of it, do you love God and all humanity, are you overcoming the sins that God says He hates, etc., etc.?
 
Maybe a "tangible" example will help:
 
Money--you have money and I have money. It all "looks" like the same money.  But one can buy food for his family with his money and another can buy booze with his money and let his family go without. Is there a difference? You bet.
 
Guns--you have gun and I have a gun (both made by the same manufacturer). So our guns are the same, correct? There is no difference in your gun and my gun, correct?  Not at this point, but what do the two guns produce? One man shoots game to feed his family with his gun, while the other SHOOTS HIS FAMILY.  Is there a difference? You bet.
 
James has great and simple wisdom in this matter:  "Even so faith, if it has not works, IS DEAD...Yea a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me YOU faith [this is one kind] without works, and I will show you MY faith [this is a second kind] BY MY WORKS"  (James 2:17-18).
 
Two faiths, two entirely different manifestations of that faith.
 
It's a huge subject and deserves a whole paper on it.
 
God be with you,
Ray

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lilitalienboi16

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Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2008, 09:06:47 PM »

Thank you kat, that was right on the dot. Ray does talk about this also i believe in the latest audio on how we got the bible.

God bless,

Alex
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kweli

  • Guest
Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2008, 05:48:32 AM »

Thank you all for your responses. As you can imagine, letting go of our addictions and afflictions (thanks for that phazel) isnt any easy. That old "what you perceive you can achieve" sermon had been stamped into my brain so deeply that sometimes oen becomes presumptuous (very maturely put Bradigans).

Hi kweli,
It sounds like you are saying, if you have enough faith you should be able to direct God's will  ???

Now that I look at it like that, I feel ashamed.  :'( I hope God has forgiven me for that as I shall repent of it.

I've learned through much suffering that my faith is in Christ regardless of outward circumstances. I've learned that God is just, faithful, merciful, loving, forgiving, kind, and sovereign. I've learned that he will drag me away from anything that stands between us, which has included home, money, relationships, children, parents, family, friends, false teachings, self sufficiency, self reliance, etc..

My son now has 10 months clean and sober.  I do not know what will happen. I do not know if it's in God's plan for my son to live or die, but I do know that God is just, faithful, merciful, loving, forgiving, kind, and sovereign. I also know that there is still much I need to learn and I  still have little faith when faced with an unknown future and life and death situations with my son. I have little faith when it comes to watching my grandchildren suffer with daily chronic migraine headaches. I find comfort knowing that God is in charge of all of it.

I'm sorry to learn of this M.G. It is a great comfort though to know that the One in charge will work this out for the good. Takes a lot to get to that level of acknowledgement and submission.

Now it is clearer why man is the beast and why so many ('christians' actually) attack Ray & BT. It's not necessarily that they are against God/Truth. They are against losing themselves, losing authority. You definitely wont learn this in Sunday school. Thank God for this haven.

It truly is all about Him, and not about us.  Once we realize this, it will remove a great burden.

What more can I say? I'm probably not going to ask questions from now on because most, if not all of them could be answered by what Little Joe pointed out. Thank you all. Thank God for you. Thank God for God.

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli
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Craig

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  • There are two kinds of cops.The quick and the dead
Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2008, 09:25:54 AM »

Quote
Now it is clearer why man is the beast and why so many ('christians' actually) attack Ray & BT. It's not necessarily that they are against God/Truth. They are against losing themselves, losing authority. You definitely wont learn this in Sunday school. Thank God for this haven.

WOW Kweli, I have been struggling lately, with why we have such a hard time moderating this forum and why in the past and I'm sure, present and future we have members working to undermine the authority and rules of membership here.  I think your observation is spot on.  Non of us want to cede authority to our own carnal desires/self.  It is a daily struggle.

Blessings
Craig
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hillsbororiver

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Re: What about Faith???
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2008, 10:04:45 AM »

Hi kweli,

I am in agreement with Craig, yours was a very insightful post.

His Peace and Wisdom to you Brother,

Joe
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