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"Church" Email to Ray

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hillsbororiver:
This was an excellent example of what many experience as their eyes have begun to open, many of us (myself very much included) become/became "on fire" in regard to showing ministers, family, friends, etc. the error of their beliefs. It usually does not turn out well.

There are definitely two dynamics in place that dictate the conclusion of these attempts at teaching, one (first and foremost) is that ".....but to them it is not given" Matthew 13:11 (yet).

The second thing I see (and experienced) is that just arguing or debating scripture becomes a carnal display of "gotcha," rarely is there concession when the person we attempt to persuade is not interested in spiritual truths and are quite content with what they presently believe and feel comfortable where they are.   

Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched and miserable and poor and blind, and naked:

It takes time to become proficient in witnessing it also takes God to draw someone to His Good News and often He will use those who are consistant in their spiritual lives, living His Word rather than confronting others with their "errors." The gifts of the spirit do not just happen upon us, it is a process that will be ongoing as we journey with Him our entire life here on earth only culminating in perfection at the resurrection.

The Lord most definitely uses His own to draw others to Him, we cannot of ourselves choose anyone, but we can provide an example in the way we live our lives and interact with people we come into contact with.

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 
1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

I think it would be interesting to hear some of your experiences in regard to this matter, both positive and negative.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe



--- Quote from: Craig on January 02, 2008, 08:23:53 PM ---> Hi Ray,
> I fell upon your website, looking for information on tithing. Boy, have my eyes
> been opened to some very obvious scriptures; THANK YOU!
> I attached notes from one of my Pastors sermons. I have been increasingly
> disturbed by our $50,000 a month mortgage and the constant plea for money. My
> question is: I am a Children's church leader for the 4 and 5 year olds plus I am
> an usher on 2 Sundays out of the week. Being an usher, I have the "privilege" to
> count the "tithes". We have 4 services a week, and I only count one service.
> Our Pastor "rakes in the bucks!" Now, the question: Do I confront my Pastor with
> my new found TRUTH? I feel like a hypocrite collecting tithes, when I myself no
> longer "tithe"- And.... I know many in the Body that are on disability and are
> living on nil.
> I have heard many scriptures translated many different ways by different
> preachers, and at times have been so confused as to what the Word is actually
> saying. I am sad that so many are so sincere, but so sincerely wrong. I have
> seen alot of freak shows in charismatic churches, and have been in the process
> of elimination when it comes to who God is and His character. I feel I have
> been kicked in the butt by Jesus, and am so grateful.
> I am enjoying the "Lake of Fire" series, and can't believe how plain so much of
> what you are teaching is! God is LOVE, and I am amazed that I believed some
> (many) were going to burn forever! it was hard for me to fathom, but that is
> what I was taught, and it goes in line with my verbally abusive earthly father;
> so I swallowed it.
> I know you are VERY busy, but wanted to thank you for sharing the GOOD NEWS (for
> free, even!) and if you have time to rea d my Pastors tithing beliefs, I would
> love your input on how to grace fully jump out of "membership" from this church.
> Gratefully,
> Terri


Dear Terri:  You question is one that I often receive from those who are learning the truth, but don't quite know what to do with that new knowledge. God tells us concerning the Great Church:  "Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).

And notice please that God does not say, "And be sure to kick your pastor in the stomach with all your new-found truth BEFORE you "come out of her."

What might be more effective would be to simply write him a message and suggest that you have read extensively on a web site named "bible-truths.com" and in following the Scriptures you now see clearly that the doctrines of Christendom are not the doctrines of God's Word.

This way he can check what you have learned at our site, and it will be up to him as to whether he will continue to teach heresy or repent.  My material covers hundreds of more points of God's word that you could ever in a one-on-one confrontation with your pastor.

Let him then confront ME if he has any arguments against what we teach.

God be with you,

Ray

--- End quote ---

Deborah-Leigh:
I did not get the chance to kick my Pastor in the stomach. He kicked me first and boy did it hurt! It hurt plenty! That just shows how much I was still attached to the false teachings, idolatry assumptions, errors and blasphemous teachings that were my compass and yard stick. Well that compass has been smashed thankfully! It was leading me to Hell :D ;) and the yard stick has been broken. It was leading me to judge my neighbours not as myself! ::) ;D

I SO enjoyed Ray stating that HE would handle any questions arising out of Babylonian leadership! ;D 8) So protective of us!   :) What a precious teacher we are blessed to have sharing his insights about God and His Son Jesus Christ!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

hebrewroots98:
Well said Joe! 
After having spent 25 years doing the very thing that you speak against here, I am now confronted IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THAT I USED TO CONFRONT...and guess what ;)...I HATE IT!!!  ;D  (Pay back is a terrible thing ;) :D)....I now have those who want to corner ME and who really do not want to change themselves since they are totally COMFORTABLE with where they are spiritually; as you said, they just want to persuade me of their way of thinking.  As I had stated in an earlier thread, 'it is best to just lead them to this site than to sit endlessly and try to answer all of their endless questions...'  thus, I had to do this (leave him alone and not preach or teach; I just sent him to BT's site to test his intentions for wanting to know what I know) a couple of weeks ago to a guy (in a very highly paid position in a church) that just wanted to pick my brain; I have not heard back from him since then 8) :-\ ;)!  Not to toot my own horn or anything, but, I truly believe that this guy was so embarrassed that he saw fruits in my life that came shining through in a very natural way in my life verses having to 'have a bible study' to show onesself approved', and that I was more knowledgeable than he...that he just couldn't take that so he had to make himself look 'just as smart' as I he saw me.!)  He soon learned that I was NOT IMPRESSED  with anything that he wanted to offer me or confront or corner me on....I mean, why do I have to tell him all of the answers that are here at BT, when he can go here himself and THEN he can tell me if he agrees or not; if he does not agree, then we have no common unity of the spirit in which to further speak about the scriptures together.  As in my case, IF you are leery of their intentions, then it is a good way to test their sincerity (to send them here) before we invest too much time and energy 'discipling' them just to find out that they are not seeking the whole truth afterall!  SO, IT ALSO TAKES WISDOM TO KNOW WHEN TO SAY, 'NO, I WILL NOT STUDY, DEBATE, ARGUE, OR DISCUSS SCRIPTURES WITH YOU RIGHT NOW, TILL I SEE THAT YOU ARE NOT JUST ALL ABOUT GAINING HEAD KNOWLDGE ONLY"...(they will either love you for this response, or they will hate you for it ???!)...as I stated, before learning the Truth, I would have jumped on ALL opportunities to STUDY/DESCIPLE someone, anyone; but, not anymore!  Not without the promping of the Spirit! :o

I hope that wasn't too wordy to understand...
Onto tending to my Chili in the crockpot :P :P ;D

hebrewroots98:
I guess our messages crossed Arc!  I hear ya! 8) 8) 8) 8)  ~I was once blind, but now I see!~ Amen!

Deborah-Leigh:
This internet sure is a blessing! ;D ;)

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