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Author Topic: JOB  (Read 5426 times)

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Linny

  • Guest
JOB
« on: January 13, 2008, 01:41:03 AM »

I have another question for you old timers. ;)
I was reading some transcripts from Ray and came across this...

"Job is a poem.  I don’t know if you know that.  The 42 chapters of Job is a poem. 
Now Job does not appear to be a Jew or a Israelite.  It seems that he was a Pharaoh in Egypt.  But to pin down when he lived, I got 2000 BC all the way to 500. 

I personally think that he lived at about the time of Abraham, which would have been 1800 or 1900 BC.  I based that pretty much on the fact that 500 or 600 years later people were living to be 120 - 110 - 80 - 75 years old.  And 200 or 300 years earlier they were living to be 250 - 300 - 400 years old.  Job lived to be about 200, so he lived to about the age that people were living to at the time of Abraham.  I would probably put him about 1800 - 1900 BC.  And he apparently was one of the Pharaoh of Egypt, don’t know which one."

I'd love to read more on this. When he says it is a poem but yet it is about a real person, does that mean it is still literal or is it more like a "parable" and has a more spiritual meaning? Does he discuss this in length anywhere else?

Thanks!
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: JOB
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2008, 09:55:55 AM »

Hello Linny

We know that the OT was written for our admonishment. We learn from the lives and the records of those lives that have been recorded as Scriptures being the Word of God.

For example, we also have the history of Alexander the Great. His life was not recorded in the Scriptures so his life is not written for our admonishment, edification, inspiration or education into matters of the Spirit. The life of Job is written as a poem that is perhaps not unlike the writting that was recorded as a song of Solomon or Psalms of David. They are all parables. The whole Bible is one big parable to quote Ray Smith.

So whether it is a song, poem, psalm, proverb, or simply a record, all the Scripture is the Words of God that are Spirit and Truth.

Ray quotes scriptures from Job in a few places in his writings. Here are some examples : http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html

Notice what Job said with relation to being "destroyed":

"Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet Thou dost DESTROY me" (Job 10:8).

Yet Job knew that God would yet save him.


From : http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html

"Who then CAN be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE" (Matt. 19:25-26).

See Second Witness in Job 42:2.



From : http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

But always remember, Satan never operates beyond his God-given parameters as we will see in the case of Job.

God gave Satan charge over Job, his body, and all his possessions, to try him severely before God:

"And the Lord said unto SATAN, Behold, he [Job] is in your hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6).

It was GOD’S idea to severely try Job, not Satan’s. But Satan took strict orders from God as to just how he could try Job. Satan got permission from God at each and every step of this severe trying of Job. Do we think God does it differently today? Do we think Satan now has "free reign"- "free will?" Do we think that God "changes?" Nonsense: "For I am the LORD, I change not…" (Mal. 3:6).


From : http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html

"What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive EVIL" (Job 2:10).

Paul used Satan for the "destruction of the flesh" of the fornicator in Corinth, just as God Himself used Satan for the "destruction of the flesh" in the book of Job.

Satan has his part in the spiritual salvation of mankind. When God created our first parents in the Garden of Eden—Satan was there. When God called out the nation of Israel—Satan was there. When God wanted to test Job, one of the most perfect and righteous men who have ever lived—Satan was there. Whenever God chose to show mercy rather than condemnation on His people—Satan was there. When our Lord was being tested in the wilderness in preparation for His ministry—Satan was there. When Jesus chose Peter to possess the keys to the kingdom of God—Satan was there. Wherever God’s true gospel is preached in the world—Satan was there. Whenever God first shines the light of His Truth in man’s heaven—Satan was there. When God wanted to Sacrifice His Son for the sins of the world—Satan was there. When Ananias and Sapphira lied to God’s Holy Spirit—Satan was there. When Paul needed assistance in correcting a fornicator and a blasphemer—Satan was there. Whenever saints are tempted to disobey—Satan was there. When Paul himself was in danger of being lifted up because of transcendent spiritual revelations—Satan was there. Whenever, even the saints are fooled by great power and lying signs and wonders—Satan is there. When we look for the source of all the lying deception of the whole world—again, Satan is there.


Arcturus :)

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hillsbororiver

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Re: JOB
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2008, 09:56:36 AM »

Hi Linny,

I find that Job's physical trials and tribulations as well as rewards are shadows of the spiritual experiences of those who are living (or lived) under the promise of the New Covenant. Since learning that bit of wisdom here it really opened up the OT in ways I never imagined.

Many things in scripture were literal and physically true yet the deeper spiritual Truth is what is actually infinitely more important than just a historical record of a bunch of ancient Middle Eastern fanatics.  ;)

There are many examples of this but let's have a look at one, the "manna (or bread) from heaven."


 THE TYPE AND SHADOW IS FAR INFERIOR TO THE REALITY

Malachi was a "prophet." Moses was also a prophet, "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses" (Deut. 34:10). And Jesus Christ did not come to destroy the "prophets," but rather to "fulfill [the prophets]" (Matt. 5:17).

Under the Prophet Moses, God fed the nation of Israel bread in the wilderness.

"Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat" (John 6:31).

Under the Prophet Malachi God said they should bring the tithes into the storehouse so that there would be

"…meat in My house, and prove me now herewith, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of HEAVEN, and pour you out A [keep in mind that this blessing is singular—a blessing] blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive IT [again, singular]" (Mal. 3:10).

This may well be one of the most misunderstood and wrongly preached verses in the Bible.

The word "meat" in this verse comes from a Hebrew word taraph, and means "to pluck off or pull to pieces; to supply with food (as in morsels)" (Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary, p. 105, #2963).

From this pulling to pieces, plucking off, and morsels, comes the phrase "breaking bread." There undoubtedly was, more grains in the storehouse (to bake bread), than any other food commodity. Now then, listen and learn what I have to show you next, and you will know and understand more about the Old Testament Prophets than do most theologians. What did Jesus have to say to the Jews about the "bread from heaven" which they said their fathers ate in the desert?

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, [truly, truly], I say unto you, Moses gave you NOT THAT BREAD FROM HEAVEN; but My Father gives you the TRUE BREAD from heaven. For the bread of God is HE which comes down from heaven and gives life unto the world" (John 6:32-33)!

What? How can Jesus say that?

The Jews said that their fathers ate "bread from heaven."

Moses said that, "He gave them bread from heaven to eat."

But Jesus said, "Moses gave you NOT that bread from heaven; but My Father gives you the TRUE bread from heaven.

Is Jesus contradicting the very Word of God? No, a thousand times No: He is fulfilling the words of the prophets just as He said in Matt. 5:17.

The bread in the desert was only the type of bread from heaven, which in reality, and in fulfillment, pointed to Jesus Christ, the "TRUE bread from heaven." The same is true for Malachi. The "polluted bread" of Malachi is but the type of the unpolluted, pure, "TRUE bread from heaven,’ which is Jesus Christ. But to receive this "blessing from heaven," we must bring all our tithes, all that we have to offer God, into the storehouse so that there will be "meat [unpolluted bread] in Mine house."

Now then, does God want unpolluted animals? No. Does God want unpolluted produce from the land? No. Does God want unpolluted money? No. Well what kind of sacrifice does He want then? God wants you! All of you! You, yourself, are the sacrifice that God wants.

"I beseech [invitation, invocation, imploration, exhortation] you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice holy [not polluted], acceptable [not like in Malachi where God says, ‘neither will I accept an offering at your hand’], unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Rom. 12:1).

As it is our ‘bodies’ that house our mind, heart, and spirit, we will also cover those attributes which are necessary in order for our "living sacrifice" to be acceptable unto the Lord.

Seriously, dear readers, of what value are physical material offerings to God, if the ones making the offerings are themselves, "polluted bread?" Does God really desire physical things? God has already created BILLIONS OF GALAXIES full of "physical things." Billions of galaxies do not fulfill God’s desire for the love, obedience, and admiration of children. God wants children. God wants children—Sons and Daughters in His Own image. But God will not accept children whose character is likened to "polluted bread."

We will cover the quality traits of spiritual character that God desires of all His sacrifices.

You can read it all here;

http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

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gmik

  • Guest
Re: JOB
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2008, 03:21:51 PM »

Excellent teaching, both of you!!!!

Off topic a bit:  I went to read from a website that I heard was bashing Ray.  I was a little apprehensive, bcz I thought, oh what if he makes some good points?  Ha not even close! 

Point being, when I read Ray's site or you good folk that put time and effort in to bring him onto our threads, it IS like unpolluted manna from heaven.  His use of scripture is unparallel as far as I am concerned!!  Everything seems safe and calm again.  I am not putting him up above or anything like that-no we are not a cult as that other place said-I just get the Meat of the Word and it just sits well w/ me!

Thanks for the question Linny or we wouldn't have gotten such great info and reminders.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: JOB
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2008, 04:02:37 PM »

Ah G! You are experiencing the difference between good and evil! ;D 8)

Peace to you sister!

Arc
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hillsbororiver

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Re: JOB
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2008, 07:54:28 PM »


Point being, when I read Ray's site or you good folk that put time and effort in to bring him onto our threads, it IS like unpolluted manna from heaven.  His use of scripture is unparallel as far as I am concerned!! 


Gena,

This has been my experience as well, I have read scores if not hundreds of "Christian" books and I still have 50 or 60 maybe more of these books now collecting dust on my bookshelves, not one of them even approached the consistant and inspirational teachings found on Bible Truths. Not even close.

I will NEVER forget when I first "stumbled" (amazing how so many of us use that word, but it is perfectly appropriate) onto Ray's site and feeling a profoundly intense rush through my spirit that FINALLY after 34 years (albeit inconsistantly) of seeking His Truth in regard to His plan and purpose I had found it. Eureka!

The beautiful thing is that not only are the articles a beautiful, rich and deep treasure but the keys to studying the scriptures has also been an incredible blessing, I really do thank God constantly for granting me this opportunity.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

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joyful1

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Re: JOB
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2008, 09:34:10 PM »

Hi Linny--
If  you google "Job" & "genre" you'll find a LOT of commentary on the poetic form of Job...I think the Catholic church teaches that the intro and end are prose but that the bulk of the book is a poem. It's so unique in all of history that one group actually decided to call its form something totally new...they call it "prototypic horror."
Joyce
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ez2u

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Re: JOB
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2008, 06:11:16 AM »

Joe  I agree with you  Rays' teaching are a cut above  most others.  I find them very anointed but not everyone understands them only those the Lord has called to hear.  To be honest that calling is full of suffering!!!!! ouch  Peggy
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: JOB
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2008, 08:29:52 AM »

So true Peggy, even knowing this it is amazing how some of the truths revealed by His Spirit to Ray and shared with us seem so crystal clear to some and impossibly cloudy and muddled to others.

His Peace to you,

Joe
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