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[Samson]

Hello Everyone,
                     While perusing through my collection of articles from various Universal Sites, I came across something very interesting, that I thought I might share with all of you. Remembering reading one of Rays' E-mail responses where he makes reference to Ernest Martin as one who taught him some of the things he knows, I came across an article Entitled PAGAN DOCTRINE OF THE SOUL, DELIBERATE DECEPTION ! by Ernest L. Martin, which happens to be one of my favorite articles that I've come across thus far. Under the Sub-Heading, The Ancients Admitted they Lied he states, " The primary reason for the invention of the doctrines of a terrible and never-ending Hades, and its supporting doctrine of inherent immortality, was clearly that of state expediency. the common people were told false hoods to keep them subject to the state. This was especially true among the Greeks and pre-eminently among the Romans. Pagan religion and all its ramifications was simply manufactured to control the masses. The doctrines of a hell immediately after death which signified that people had inherent immortality were meant to scare the common people into being faithful citizens. Philosophers, Theologians and Statesmen developed what became known by First Century B.C. as the "double doctrine" or the "double truth" teaching. The populace were told one thing, a pack of lies and the intellectuals, actually those initiated into the mysteries as we will see were told the naked truth. It is no wonder Paul said that the leaders were without excuse, they knew better, they hold back the truth, (Rom.1:18). The leaders would not tell the people the facts, which they were very much aware of. Pythagoras in the sixth century B.C., Plato, Aristotle and even those of the first century always had two doctrines. Invariably their disciples were told the truth ( as much as the Philosophers understood it), and the common people were told as many bold-faced lies as was necessary to control them and render them governable. "

                                                  The first time I read this, it blew my mind and it sickened my heart how they misled people, willingly and willfully. These were just some of the main excerpts from that Article, to drive home the main point of the article. Just thought to share this with all of you, before I head back to work Tomorrow and attempt to finish cooking Sausage and Peppers for my wife and I. I would love to invite you over for some, but your too far away. Looking forward to hearing some feedback regarding this post.   May the Love God be with all of you, Samson(Brad).

 

[rk12201960]

Hi Brad,
Thats pretty close to what the watch tower puts out.
They control lie and (yes folks) teach false teachings of men, and cover the light of God.


Great catch!
Gods speed.
Randy.

[gmik]

Brad I believe it!  Keep the masses illiterate, poor, and fear(of the army and spirits of afterlife).

Just google church history and you will find lots of info like that

[pylady]

Hi Brad,

Thanks for posting that article.  And we only see a little of the lies and deception.  When Jesus shines His light on the darkness of this world we'll all be amazed at the darkness He uncovers. 

Yesterday I rec'd in the mail a letter with a prayer rug ( really just a picture of a rug ), and instrucions to pray for what I wanted to bring into my life (money, job, etc.) and return the "rug", along with my donation in the enclosed envelope and Jesus would grant me my prayers!  I can't believe anyone could be so gullible, but people must send money or they wouldn't be mailing these letters.    Just shows you how powerful the god of this system is, and how completely he is able to blind people thru his agents on this earth. 

This fits in with Ray's January bible study and the lies and deception he saw in the WWC.  These vessels of wrath, Satan's earthly agents will have their day of judgment.  And we know God hates a false tongue!

Can things get any worse before Jesus returns?     

[gmik]

Oh, I remember getting stuff like that! ugh

But don't you get all those e mails from your "babylonian" friends, and they are cute and sweet and even "spiritual" and then in says....send to 10 friends and in 4days something good will happen to you!!

These people don't even recognize the deception-but lord they wouldn't take a drink or be caught dead smoking-but they promote witchcraft!!!

[pylady]

Wow,  what kind of friends do you have, Gena?

Just kidding 

The envelope was return postage guaranteed, so my husband checked a donation but "forgot" to put in the check, and mailed it back to them so they'd have to pay the postage!  he thinks he's teaching them a lesson, but we know only God can do that!

[gmik]

Hi Cindy,

I have BABYLONIAN friends-what do I expect then, huh?  I am learning to Delete before I click

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Brad

Thank you for that post. I have come across a similar declaration that was an admition by a Jesuit of the Catholic Church as I recall. I have not kept the article that came up on a web search and I was only looking for my edification anyway so I can not point to the article . Suffice to say, I have much in my library that confirms the Jesuit hand in the affairs, economics and oppression in the world. Not something to fear as this is all in the Plan of God that the world  will be deceived by Satan.

My thought as I was reading your post is this. Some leaders perhaps all leaders in Babylon KNOW that they mislead but what is interesting for me is I believe they they loose sight of the fact that they lie as they begin to BELIEVE THE LIE! How interesting that God Himself turns them over to believe the lie.

Rom 1 : 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, GOD GAVE THEM OVER TO A REPROBATE MIND, to do those things which are not convenient.

So they  make an idol of saving the masses, controlling them as a means to an end which is what ever justification they conjure up in their imagination. They are blind not knowing God is in charge of them, responsible for them and the cause of all circumstances. Knowing that would be simply too much to bear for them. God and His Plans to make mankind know good and evil and come to repent is in God's control not mans!

The leaders who lead in blindness, lead those whose eyes are blind because they have not yet been openend. I followed in that blindness for years without open eyes. I did not know the Truth. Just looking today at some of Rays teachings only a few thousand out of how many billions of people on earth today have had the blessing to read the Truth  This thought struck me today. How many know the Truth and are progressively becoming acquainted with it? This is not an accusing question or observation it is simply one of looking at the times we are in as in the days of Noah. This is not to make others look low and the few look holier than thou but to say that it is a fact that Jesus has called many and chooses very few.

 Do the Leaders know this? No. They appoint themselves and mark themselves as THE FEW>  They have to have known what the Truth is somewhere somehow to have taken the high ground to teaching nonsense, blasphemy and heresy surely! ? I look at Ray's papers to some of these Babylonian leaders. Did they change? No. They carried on right on teaching lies.  Did they see?  Maybe but if they did they then turned away, aside and against the Truth to continue to idolise their agendas to impress their God that is Satan who has his throne in the Church's of the World. What a tragedy for them that will be corrected, straightened out and put right in the end by non other than Christ Himself when He comes to expose, refute and put straight their crooked paths.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[aqrinc]

 
Hi Samson,

This is at the heart of Religiousity and damnable heritical teaching by today's money changers in church.

george.

[mharrell08]

Hos 4:6  My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...

Job 21:14  Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.

Job 36:12  But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.

Ps 9:10  The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Isa 53:11  He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant [Christ] justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 11:9  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.



Marques

[Samson]

Hos 4:6  My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...

Job 21:14  Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.

Job 36:12  But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.

Ps 9:10  The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Isa 53:11  He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant [Christ] justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 11:9  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.



Marques

Marques,

             Thankyou for sharing the above Scriptures for the Spiritual enlightenment of all. We can
             all look forward to whats expressed at Isaiah. 11:9, mentioned above. It gives hope in
             this depressing World.

                                                 Kind Regards, Samson.

[smeacham]

I just have to say, as an ex-minister and ex-elder in Babylon, I personally did NOT know the truth.  I was seeking the truth, and God let me learn a LOT of stuff along the journey.  But I was never consciously trying to deceive or control the people in my congregations.  I was trying to serve them to the best of my abilities.

Once I knew the truth, I immediately embraced it and started a new journey of relearning everything, which is where I am now.  Of course, this is a three steps forward, two steps back process - not going back to my old beliefs, but finding that even my new beliefs aren't exactly what I thought they were at first.  It's amazing!

Steve

[Falconn003]

Hello Everyone,
                     While perusing through my collection of articles from various Universal Sites, I came across something very interesting, that I thought I might share with all of you. Remembering reading one of Rays' E-mail responses where he makes reference to Ernest Martin as one who taught him some of the things he knows, I came across an article Entitled PAGAN DOCTRINE OF THE SOUL, DELIBERATE DECEPTION ! by Ernest L. Martin,

Samson(Brad).

Could you please post the link to this email.

Rodger

[aqrinc]

Hi Steve,

Old wine, new skin will not work. Old wine, Old Skin; New Wine, New Skin.
I seem to remember reading this some where in the Gospels.


(Mat 9:17)  Neither are they draining fresh wine into old wine skins; otherwise, surely the wine skins are bursting, and the wine is spilling, and the wine skins perish. But they are draining fresh wine into new wine skins, and both are preserved."

(Mar 2:22)  And no one is draining fresh wine into old wine skins. Yet, if so, will not the fresh wine be bursting the wine skins? And the wine is spilling, and the wine skins will perish. But fresh wine is put into new wine skins."

(Luk 5:37)  And no one is draining fresh wine into old wine skins. Otherwise, surely the fresh wine will be bursting the wine skins, and it will be spilled and the wine skins will perish."

george.

[EKnight]

Hello Everyone,
                     While perusing through my collection of articles from various Universal Sites, I came across something very interesting, that I thought I might share with all of you. Remembering reading one of Rays' E-mail responses where he makes reference to Ernest Martin as one who taught him some of the things he knows, I came across an article Entitled PAGAN DOCTRINE OF THE SOUL, DELIBERATE DECEPTION ! by Ernest L. Martin,

Samson(Brad).

Could you please post the link to this email.



Rodger

I think this may be it Rodger.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=4068.0[/url]

Eileen

[EKnight]

I found this too.

Title: Re: Plagiarism Help?
Post by: Dennis Vogel on February 28, 2008, 10:07:30 PM
Quote from: dch1 on February 28, 2008, 06:15:51 PM
Hey dennis this has got to be a blatent example of plagiarism. It is taken from the LOF series installment XVI part C. The origin of endless punishment.   http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d980927.htm
It's sad when people steal to glorify themselves.

I asked Ray to write a few words about Dr Martin.

Denny:

I knew Dr. Ernest Martin since 1967 (that's over 40 years). The last time we studied together was back in 1982, I believe, when he flew out from California to Mobile where I lived at the time and we spent a long weekend together.  We were both familiar with the Concordant Publishing Concern and had agreed on certain things they taught: Namely Universal Reconciliation.  And so I have been familiar with his work and research for a long time. Some things Dr. Martin did not see. He felt the "Lake of Fire" would be a literal place in the future in Palestine. He also did not comprehend the Sovereignty of God and man's lack of a free will. That is until a few months before he died. Shortly after he died a friend who knew him well up in Portland, Oregon informed me that Dr. Martin came to realize that man absolutely did not have a free will and that God is totally Sovereign. I was very glad to hear that.  I gave Dr. Martin credit for some of my outline on "The Cano nization of the Scriptures" which I taught at our last Conference, if some of you remember.  So he learned some things before I did, and I learned some things before he did.  Shortly after his death I was asked by the man left in charge of his work if I would care to help take over the work of Dr. Martin. I graciously declined. We were not agreed everything, that's for sure, but even more, we have our hands full with bible-truths.com.

God be with you,
Ray

[daywalker]

Yep, it's definitely sad how it all started...

I read similar quotes in, "THE EARLY CHRISTIAN VIEW OF THE SAVIOR", By Gary Amirault. He is a Universalist, and though I am not schooled in everything he believes, this is a very good article with some key Historical facts as well.

It's amazing what a little 'honest' research will uncover.

Thy Will Be Done,

Daywalker.

[cjwood]

hi samson brad,
ray writes concerning the same info about the deliberate deception in his LOF series 16 C.  if you read down about the last 1/3 of that paper you will see what ray says about it.


claudia

[Samson]

Hi Everyone,

                  I was surprised to see that someone Resurrected this Old Topic. George was the one.
                  All of you take note that this originally posted 01/09/08, maybe a week after I joined
                  the Forum, so I want to clarify that this Article was in my possession prior to my even
                  knowing the existence of this Site(Bible-Truths) and part of my collection. The Article
                  by Dr. Ernest L. Martin, our subject was discovered from an A-Z Universalist Library
                  entitled God's Truth for Today. That Library of Universalist Authors was my first exposure
                  of Universalist thought and subsequently led to my arrival at this Site.

                  The Email in question regarding Ray's mentioning of Dr. Martin was provided by Eileen.
                  Thankyou Eileen ! Most of my early examination of Ray's material, prior to joining this
                  Site consisted of mainly reading his Emails and the one regarding his mentioning Dr. Martin
                  was one of them. My initial Topic Post that began this thread was only some excerpts
                  from Dr. Martin's article. The concept of a Dual belief system; one to control the masses
                  and one for those of the "intellectual" class made perfect sense to me.

                  This seemed to be the motivation of Augustine and others in declaring Universalism
                  as Heresy and implementing Eternal Torment as a vehicle to control the masses.
                  The few that knew the Truth of the Eventual Restoration of All Things were Spirtitually
                  Blinded too, believing their own lies, except for God's Elect down through the centuries.

                                                 Kind regards, Samson.

[Marlene]

Hello, I know before I came in here I was studying some of the different church history. All the difference in them  drew me out of Babylon. I know, that God led me to Ray. It was first place I came to that made sense. I recall Ray saying he believed in the reconcillation of all. I don't think he is linking himself with even other universalist. But, I do know I put in Ernest Martin and some other group has his teachings on there website.

I am so happpy that God led me to Ray first. After, reading his articles I can discern the truth. Ray is so good at always having scriptures for us. He in my opinion is unlike any of the others I have read. Some, who are universalist believe in Rapture, Trinity even that we are Imortal. Thanks to the scriptures Ray presents I know none of those believes are truths of God. It is not just in organzied church we have to watch. I mean this mixing of untruths is a dangerous things. I just thank God he led me to Ray first. We should never link all believes together. Ray believes the truths that God has taught him.  I know that there are many who believe what we have been shown here, but we have the scriptures for proof. I am in here and learning have a long way to go. I have tested the teaching and happy now I am able to discern when false teachings are being taught.

Steve, I can believe that there are many ministers who do not know they have been lied to. I am sure God has his plan to lead many ministers to the truth.
With what knowledge you did have you were not trying to deceive. God knows that. Just, the fact that you don't want to teach shows me a humble spirit especially after being so involved in ministry. People, of all walks of life will be drawn to the truth by the Lord. He knows who we are and he draws us and he keeps us. I am just so happy that nothing I try to do ever worked out . But, everything he does works out and makes me content and have peace that I never had.  I find nothing wrong in discerning things. I am just glad I can see now.  Yes, there are truly those ministers and members who really mean well. But, are blind I was one of them. I just tear up when I think where God has brought me.

For me this is the best I have found. Ray won't even teach on anything till he feels like he has been led to the truth. He is humble and not fast to write an article just for the sake of saying he understands. Ray discerns things and never links himself with man, but with Christ. That, is a hard one for sure. We are so use to doing that. We just cant take truths and mix them with lies. I think many even some universlist do that.


In His Love,
Marlene
I am not trying to hurt anyone. Its just what I have learned from being in here and the scriptures coming to life. I am like Steve learning truths and giving up the lies that I had been taught. Qutie a humble experience.  I would not trade these truths for any money or anything because it is the first time in my life I am not wandering to and fro searching.