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The World Is Groaning For It Knows Not What
hillsbororiver:
From The Lake of Fire Part XII
(GOD JUDGES THE WORLD IN A POND)
THE WORLD IS GROANING FOR IT KNOWS NOT WHAT
"For the earnest expectation of the creation waits FOR THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD" (Rom. 8:19).
Notice this verse in a few other translations:
"For the EAGER outlook of creation ARDENTLY awaits the revealing of the Sons of God" (The Emphasized New Testament).
"For the LONGING of the creation LOOKS EAGERLY for the time when [the glory of] the sons of God shall be revealed" (The Epistles of Paul by Conybeare).
"All creation is YEARNING, LONGING to see the manifestation of the sons of God" (The New Testament in Modern Speech).
Or the creation waits with EAGER LONGING for the revealing of the sons of God" (The Revised Standard Version).
"THE WHOLE WORLD IS ON TIPTOE to see the wonderful sight of the sons of God coming into their own" (Phillips’ Translation).
To be sure, it is GOD Who is telling us that the whole creation is groaning in earnest expectation. It is groaning for it knows not what, but GOD KNOWS! In other words, God is telling US, who are growing in spiritual truths, what it is that the whole world and indeed the whole creation is in desperate need of—the saving power of the Sons of God. We ARE the BODY OF CHRIST! What Christ does, he DOES THROUGH US!
WHY? Why are they waiting for the manifestation of the Sons of God? Of what value will these Sons be to them? We can see why the Sons themselves would want to be manifested as such with God their Father and Elder Brother Jesus Christ, but why would all the wicked humanity of the entire "CREATION" be "waiting in EARNEST expectation?" What in the world is taking place here?
The church teaches that after all the Sons and Daughters of God are in their glory, the rest of the world will be tortured eternally by real fire in a terrorist hellhole of hopeless doom (never mind the fact that God says "there will be NO MORE DOOM") (Rev. 22:3, Concordant Literal New Testament).
Seriously, when all the Sons and Daughters of God are manifested IN THEIR GLORY, why would the ENTIRE CREATION be awaiting this event with almost uncontrollable bated breath, excitement, and anticipation? WHY? What is it that the churches have never told you? What is God going to do with all these glorified Sons and Daughters?
You have heard enough lies, now let’s read God’s Truth. Here is one of the most profound and all-encompassing Scriptures in the entirety of the Bible:
"For the earnest expectation of the creature [creation] waits for THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD. For the creature [creation] was MADE subject to VANITY [‘…surely, EVERY MAN IS VANITY’-- Psalm 39:11], NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [GOD] Who has subjected the same in HOPE. Because the creature [creation] itself also shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption [corruption includes DEATH] into THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD. For we know that THE WHOLE CREATION GROANS AND TRAVAILS IN PAIN together until now" (Rom. 8:19-22).
WOW! Let me point out a few marvelous things in this verse. Notice the chronological order of things in this Scripture and see how it contradicts the terrible teaching of orthodox doctrine:
First the Sons of God are manifested or shown to be what they really are—SPIRITUAL SONS OF GOD (and DAUGHTERS—II Cor. 6:18)! No longer flesh and blood. No longer subject to the pulls of a carnal mind, but True Sons in the very IMAGE OF GOD and His Son, Jesus Christ.
But what happens next? What happens to all the rest of humanity who are not sons and daughters and are not saved? What will happen to them? Just why, pray tell, are they eagerly awaiting the manifestation of these Sons and Daughters? Of what value is the salvation and manifestation of the few chosen saints to those left behind who are not saved?
The Church teaches the world that the rest of humanity will be tortured for all eternity in the lake of fire. Is that true? Is that the purpose of the lake of fire is?
Next we read what the condition of the rest of humanity is, how they got that way, and what is the solution to the problem.
"For the creature [creation] was made subject to VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope" (Rom. 8:20).
God MADE man subject to vanity. God did not ask man’s permission to do this. God did it for His own wise purpose. But God is not a fiend that takes pleasure in the failures of weak humanity. God did not make man in a condition of vanity so that most of humanity would fail of the ideal, and God would then torture most of his creation eternally, when it was He Who created them weak and subjected them to every form of vanity in the first place. God created the whole creation subject to vanity. It is, therefore, God’s responsibility to get man out of this mess.
God supernaturally made a way for the "manifested Sons of God" to conquer the flesh and the carnal mind and be formed into the very image of God with the very mind of Christ! They will be no longer subject to vanity when they are manifested. They will be no longer subject to "the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION." They will be FREE!
And it is they who will then FREE the rest of humanity from their bondage! What was the purpose for this subjection to vanity? So that they will eternally fail and God would eternally torture them for their failure? No! Let’s read it:
God has, "subjected the same IN HOPE" (Verse 20). Wait a minute, am I saying that all of humanity, who fail to be in the first resurrection and become the manifest Sons and Daughters of God, will nonetheless still have "hope?" Is there really hope for all the lost and unsaved? How can this be? Aren’t they going to be subjected to the "lake of fire?" Yes, but there is "hope" in the lake of fire. In fact, the lake of fire is their ONLY HOPE! They will not be eternally tortured just because they did not attain to the first resurrection, but will rather be "DELIVERED!" Let’s read it:
http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html
Peace,
Joe
joyful1:
Joe--
First ...let me say; thanks for taking the time to post these excerpts from Ray's work from time to time...because they always cause one to dig deeper.
My question tonight is this.... you quoted:
For we know that THE WHOLE CREATION GROANS AND TRAVAILS IN PAIN together until now" (Rom. 8:19-22).
I used to read this and think....okay "until now"...so NOW...(when Romans was written) we no longer groan and travail?
Do you see? It can be taken as ....we waited for the postman until now...but now he is here and we no longer wait for him. I kept wondering WHAT happened that Paul thought....the groaning and travailing is OVER?
Did you ever think this way? What do you think it means?
Joyce
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: joyful1 on January 14, 2008, 06:02:50 PM ---
Joe--
First ...let me say; thanks for taking the time to post these excerpts from Ray's work from time to time...because they always cause one to dig deeper.
--- End quote ---
Hi Joyce,
You are very welcome, the rereading of Ray's work has that very result with me, I post these things in the hope it will affect others in the same manner, it does not seem to matter how many times I read this stuff I always come away feeling spiritually recharged and my spirit is comforted spurring me on to continue the journey with peace and joy.
--- Quote from: joyful1 on January 14, 2008, 06:02:50 PM ---
My question tonight is this.... you quoted:
For we know that THE WHOLE CREATION GROANS AND TRAVAILS IN PAIN together until now" (Rom. 8:19-22).
I used to read this and think....okay "until now"...so NOW...(when Romans was written) we no longer groan and travail?
Do you see? It can be taken as ....we waited for the postman until now...but now he is here and we no longer wait for him. I kept wondering WHAT happened that Paul thought....the groaning and travailing is OVER?
Did you ever think this way? What do you think it means?
Joyce
--- End quote ---
That is a great question, I can see where you are coming from. Rotherham's quotes this a bit differently;
Romans 8:22 For we know all creation is sighing together and travailing in birth throes together, until the present
You will notice Paul did not say it ended only that humanity has always been in this condition since the expulsion from the Garden until the present it had (has) been our state. The one thing that did change was that through the death and resurrection of Christ and the Spiritual manifestation revealed at Pentecost we received the New Covenant, a better promise.
Paul goes on to speak of faith, our hope in this New Covenant through our Lord. If we believe this promise we have received our "earnest" our down payment of the Spirit that will be our entirety at the resurrection.
The OT Prophets did not have this, no one did until Christ died and was raised.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
This is only available to those under the New Covenant and although we still groan it is tempered by the faith we have in the hope of Christ's sacrifice for us and His resurrection as an example of what we are to look forward to.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
I hope this helps a bit.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
hillsbororiver:
WHENCE THE WORD LAKE?
Interesting word, this word "lake." The word lake in Rev. 19, 20, & 21 is "limen, which comes from Strong’s "[#3040--limen] (through the idea of nearness of shore); a POND (large or small) -- lake."
And the word limen means "a harbor—haven, the fair havens" (Strong’s Greek Dictionary, p. 151).
A pond? God judges the world in a pond? Yes, God judges every unrepentant, unbelieving, wicked person that has ever lived (billions and billions and billions of people) -- The WHOLE WORLD OF HUMANITY (who are not in the first resurrection)… in a pond. A pond of divine, purifying SPIRIT.
This word limen has the word "fair" before it in Acts 27:8, in the King James Version—the "fair havens." Other translations render this verse as "safe harbor." (My father helped build Safe Harbor Dam in Pennsylvania).
Is not even the definition of this word and its root, comforting? And so even in this most solemn setting of God’s judgment there is a hint of safety and security.
SAFETY AND SECURITY IN THE DIVINE LAKE OF FIRE
Perhaps one reason that God describes this place of judgment as a "pond" or "lake" rather than a "harbor" is because a lake is landlocked, thus preventing a return to the perilous winds and waves of the deep sea from which these occupants have figuratively come:
"And the SEA gave up the dead [spiritually dead people] which were in it…"
This is not speaking of the physical waters of the world’s oceans, however. Remember that just as the "lake of fire" is symbolic in Revelation, "the sea" is likewise symbolic. This is speaking of the SPIRITUALLY DEAD from the great sea of humanity, not the relatively few literal flesh souls who have unfortunately drowned to death in the oceans of the world. Many have also drowned in rivers and other waterways don’t you know.
The very reason that the "fair haven" of Acts 27:12
"…was not commodious [suitable] to winter in…" [is because of its position to the sea] "…the more [majority] part advised to depart thence also if by any means they might attain to Phenice, and there to winter; which is an haven [harbor] of Crete, and lies [opens] toward the south west and north west."
The American Bible Union Version translates this verse:
"was not well situated for wintering in…"
The Living Bible translates this verse:
"And since Fair Havens was an exposed harbor…"
ONLY GOD IS THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE SEA
Various nations in the past were called "the sovereignty of the sea" because of their great naval domination. But there is only one which is truly the Sovereignty of the sea, and that is God. Forty years ago I cut from a book and pasted into the inside cover of my Bible the following:
"O God, Thy sea is so great and my boat is so small."
This is really a parable of the salvation of the world. The "sea" in Scripture is a symbol for mankind, humanity—the sinning human race. Scripture often speaks of (1) the sea, (2) the earth, and (3) the heaven—the sea being the lowest, and the heaven being the highest.
Remember the Scriptural principle that first comes the physical and then the spiritual. There are many physical types in the Bible that represent spiritual realities.
God saved Noah and his family from the raging waves of the sea in an ark. When we come to understanding spiritual things, we will clearly see that the ark represents Christ. We also have examples of Jesus saving His disciples from the raging waves of the Sea [lake] of Galilee.
"And when He was entered into a ship, His disciples followed Him. And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was COVERED WITH THE WAVES [‘and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was already filling, Mk 4:37]: but He was asleep. And His disciple came to Him, and awoke Him, saying Lord, save us: WE PERISH. And He said unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then He arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea: and there was a great calm. But the men marveled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him!" (Matt. 8:23-27).
Does anyone have the slightest doubt that Jesus possesses the power to calm the sea? Is any man or group of men more powerful than the sea? Then why, oh why, do we allow theologians, clergymen, pastors, preachers, teachers and authors to tell us that Jesus Christ is POWERLESS TO CALM THE SEA OF HUMANITY? That man possesses a raging power of "free will" that even God Himself cannot and will not penetrate or calm? No, my friends, "…the winds and the sea OBEY HIM!"
On another occasion we read this:
"And straightway Jesus constrained His disciples to get into a ship, and to go before Him unto the other side, while He sent the multitudes away… But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, TOSSED WITH WAVES" (Matt. 14:22-24).
In both cases Jesus SAVED His disciples from the raging waves of the sea.
http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
Kat:
Hi Joe,
I thought this would be a good addition to this thread.
It's from the transcript of the Mobile Conference 2005 'What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom?'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html ---------
Peter realized that now. It doesn’t just have to be a Jew, they can be from any nation.
Acts 10:36 You know the Word which God sent to the sons of Israel, preaching the gospel of peace by Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all!);
v. 37 that word which was published throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
v. 38 how God anointed Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit and with power, and He went about doing good, and healing all those who were oppressed of the Devil, for God was with Him.
v. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. Whom they slew and hanged on a tree;
This is all part of the gospel. He is teaching this now to Cornelius.
v. 40 but God raised Him up the third day and showed Him openly,
This is part of the gospel. Christ was crucified, was dead, rose from the dead.
v. 41 not to all the people, but to chosen witnesses before by God, even to us (Peter was a witness) who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead.
v. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained of God to be the Judge of the quick and the dead.
Oops, how did that slip in there? Did you notice that? Did you notice what the gospel is? Jesus Christ is “the judge of the quick and the dead.” That is the gospel. This takes us all the way down to Rev. 22, doesn’t it. It certainly does. This thing of judgment is part of the gospel… Judge of the quick and the dead.
Now John says that as Christ is, so are we. Christ is the judgment. Guess what? So are we.
1Cor 6:2 Do you not know…
Who is the you? Corinthians. Who are the Corinthians? The chosen, these are uncircumcised in flesh, circumcised in the heart, in spirit… Gentiles. They are the kingdom of God, these are the heavens where God’s Spirit dwells and He says unto them.
1Cor 6:2 …that the saints shall judge the world?
That’s the gospel. Jesus Christ was appointed for that thing, to be the judge of the quick and the dead and as Christ is so are we. Guess what? We are to judge the world. Well of course, we are going to rule them with a rod of iron. That is how we are going to start out in the kingdom of God on this earth, over the nations of the world, in what’s called the millennium or the thousand year reign.
Rom 8:22 And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
The whole world. If you have any doubts about that, just turn on the evening news. If it’s not the weather; the hurricanes, the earthquakes, then it’s wars and terrorist. Now they are burning down Paris, for eight days straight. This is always been the condition of the world. They say the history of mankind is a chronicle of wars. Man is either in war, coming out of war or preparing for the next war.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waits…
This whole world, this whole creation is groaning and travailing in pain. Is waiting for what?
Rom 8:19 …for the manifestation of the sons of God.
That’s us, the sons of God or the kingdom of God. They are the heavens in which the Spirit of God dwells and will rule the nations.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mountain of Esau (this is them); and the kingdom shall be the Lord’s.
The “saviors” are going to rule from mount Zion, not over there in that ugly swill of a city called Jerusalem. But from spiritual mount Zion. He is going to rule “them,” Esau is them, “and the kingdom shall be the Lord’s.” What kingdom? The kingdom of what, in this context? Kingdom of saviors, plural saviors. Who are these saviors? That’s us, we’re saviors. Well this sounds a little odd, I mean we’re saying we’re going to be the saviors of the world. Well we do have a leader though, King of kings, Lord of lords, Savior of saviors and Son of sons. We’re sons right, He’s the Son of the sons. He will always have a name superior to every other one.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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