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Men and Women Roles?

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Origen II:
Awesome reply, Steve :)

I learned a little more from it.

I just can't understand why we who think this way are labeled as "sexist". It's such an insult.

Origen II:
Then why are Christians considered sexist for believing in gender roles? Being submissive to the husband is wrong all of a sudden? Taking care of the kids is wrong?

I understand where you're coming from, but it doesn't appear that many women take it as seriously as they should. While I understand that there are single parents and families with lower incomes...they are excluded from this argument.

I'm speaking about women who just lash out at the fact that they should be the support role in a family.

Gill:
Hi Isabell,

I think Origen is speaking of women who sacrifice the needs of their family for the sake of their career, whether they feel ok about that or not is a different story.  There are studies done here in the Uk to suggest that this whole idea of a 'superwoman' who is trying to raise the kids, have a career, a social life etc. just isn't coping with it.  Mothers are made to feel guilty for choosing to work and made to feel guilty for staying at home ~ everyone's situation is unique but this whole idea that a woman can 'have it all' is usually a farce.

Maybe you're being labeled as sexist, Origen, because women are always and forever being reminded of their 'roles', whether spiritual or otherwise.  How often did I hear this taught/discussed in church:

 Eph 5:25  The husbands! love your own wives, as also the Christ did love the assembly, and did give himself for it,

hmm, that'd be almost never  :P .  That's a monumental task isn't it?

hart4god:
Hi all.

This is an interesting thread!

I think submission is such a loaded word for people (women?) to hear because fundamentalists have so distorted, beyond what even the world could accomplish, the true meaning of Godly submission in the home, the assembly and in the community of faith.

My husband defers to my needs and I defer (set aside) my needs for his. We mutually submit to one another. I esteem him as head of the family (including me, the wife) but I can do it w/o fear or contention becuase he is fulfulling the law of Christ to LOVE! He does not Rule over me. I position  myself under him willingly. Yet if I failed to place myself in correct relationship to him- he is still not justified in Ruling over me.

Submission is a response of the heart-a scared realm where the Lord is at work. It is not a law imposed from outside- like as in the husband lording it over the wife and the wife catering to a husband's carnal nature. that cannot produce good fruit.

These Biblical precepts are not separate from "laying down your life for your friends", "preferring one another in love", etc.
sadly when utilized by the fundamentally wrong-they exist outside of the law of love and it hurts women deeply.

well, that is just my view from the otherside of the fence!
I have enjoyed every one of your posts on this.

hart4god

leeney:
Wow, this is a loaded subject!

  I married late in life, worked my way through college, worked until I was 7 months preggers with my first child.  At that time I decided I wanted to stay home and raise my children full time.  Here is my personal experience;

  I was held in great esteem while working my way through school, because I was not 'sponging' off my parents, I was independent, energetic, determined, unintimidated, intelligent, hard working----this is how people saw me (not how I was)

  I was held up still while preggers and working, for all the same reasons.

  I was still up there while I stayed home full time with INFANTS.  But once they were able to walk, talk, potty where they should; then things started changing.  'What do you do?'  'Oh, you don't work?'  'Couldn't you at least do something part time?'  'Oh, how boring it must be for you!'  'Why are you wasting your degree?'  I was judged everywhere I went, constantly.  It was bad.  I knew I was doing the right thing, and was very busy doing it.  Yet I came home almost regularly, feeling second class, stupid, 'taken care of', someone's burden, just LESS all the way around.  Even my childhood family treated me this way, all except my  mother.  She had 5 kids and had to work full time all her life, to help feed us.  She had always regretted this, and was thrilled when I stayed home with my kids.
 
  Yes, we are on a budget; a very tight one.  We have what we need, and have been truly blessed with many 'extras' along the way that anyone else would describe as lucky breaks.  I guess they were, but they were lucky breaks God gave us.  And we are truly grateful for them.  But I also ask myself when I look at other people----Just how big of a house do you need??????  What's wrong with buying a used car?  Or an older model?  Walmart, Target, Kohl's, Goodwill!  Hand-me-downs--- I have no problem with these.  

  I did in fact, try to find a part time job once the kids were in school, but like another here, I wanted to be off when my kids were off, and I could not find an employer who would cooperate with that idea.  I do lots of voluneteer things at the schools.  But again, there's some kind of stigma that goes with making money.  I don't know if it's just in America or not, but I see this as a bad thing, the way you are made to feel if you aren't 'carrying your own weight.'

  Now, I have a good friend who works full time; I help her with her kids sometimes, which she appreciates.  She gets just the opposite feedback----'You have kids?'  'Why do you want kids in your situation?'  'Wow, bummer, you can't stay for the office party--those kids are a drain aren't they?'  'Just think how rich you'd be if you didn't have kids?'  'Your money would be your own.'  She comes home feeling less of a human being due to these remarks.  She cries to me, and I cry to her!  Pretty crazy, eh?

  So here it is;  PEOPLE JUDGE, and it doesn't matter what the situation is, they're always looking for the negative.  It's a very selfish thing.  I resent it so much.  I grow weary of it.  It's everywhere.  ----

  If you stay home with your kids,
       You are 'kept'
       You are stupid
       You have no ambition
       You are a drain on society

  If you work and you have kids,
      You are selfish
      You are a society seeker
      You are climbing that social ladder
      You are a money lover
      You are materialistic  

  So how can you win?  So for what it boils down to, I say do what you feel is right for you.  Do what you know you are capable of, and if you are in God, He will steer you in the right direction for your situation.  And screw everyone else!  That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

leeney

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