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Author Topic: Wrath Revealed  (Read 2010 times)

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fan55

  • Guest
Wrath Revealed
« on: January 26, 2008, 09:04:59 AM »

Good morning, everyone:  I'm new to the forum but not to the Ray's writings or the knowledge of God's plan for mankind.
But I am a bit slow when it comes to understanding His Word.  For example, Ro 1:18-19 states that "For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them."  Further, Jo 3:36 states somewhat the same:  "He who believes on the Son has everlasting life, and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides (is remaining) upon him."

There is a wrath to come, but in these verses it states that the wrath is being revealed and is remaining NOW.

My questions are:
  • 1.  How is it being revealed and remaining now?

    On the RAISED topic, Arc states:  "I can not see that anyone is experiencing God's wrath in this time. We are experiencing the consequences of wickedness and evil yes but Gods wrath? I only think Jesus knows what that wrath is and He said we should pray not to be put to the second death." 

       2. I know the chosen-elect are not experiencing His wrath, but how is the wrath being revealed/remaining now on others different than being experienced?

    Charlie
    PS:  I'm not sure how this format will look. 
       
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Wrath Revealed
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 12:24:21 PM »

Hi Charlie,

I'm glad you have joined us  :)
I looked at these Scriptures and I'll answer your questions, in my opinion.
I looked how this was stated in Rotherham.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son, hath life age-abiding: whereas, he that yieldeth not unto the Son, shall not see life,óbut, the anger of God, awaiteth him. (Rotherham)

The way I see this verse is that in the first part of the verse John is saying that those that believe on Jesus (the chosen) have LIFE and will be in the first resurrection.  The other part of the verse he is saying what happens to the rest, Lake of Fire/wrath.

Rom 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17  For in it (gospel) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."
Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19  because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them.
Rom 1:20  For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.

Okay I'll just say what I think this is saying.
In Romans v. 18 where the "wrath of God is being revealed."  I'm thinking how is that happening?
Back up in v. 16-17, when Christ brought the gospel, the good news was revealed by faith to believers.
So at the same time and ever since the gospel has been preached or revealed, it also is a witness against "ungodliness and unrighteousness of men."  So is that how His wrath is revealed, by showing what ungodliness and unrighteousness of men is and the gospel/Truth is a witnessing against it.  So when Christ returns they will be "without excuse" because they "suppress the truth."  They couldn't suppress it if the gospel had not been preached.  So they will be held accountable for their ungodliness and unrighteousness and have their part in the Lake of fire/wrath.

Hope that helps some.

mercy, press and love
Kat



« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 12:26:20 PM by Kat »
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Wrath Revealed
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 12:40:36 PM »

Hello Fan55

Welcome to the Forum. Thank you for your question. Ahead of others bringing forward their insights, I would like to ask you if you have considered the conclusion to what you are asking.

If the wrath of God is on us NOW or on anyone now, it means the Elect are with us now and the Resurrection to Christ has happened. There are some who are making claims that they are Elect. There are others who are following leaders in Babylon who also believe they are Elected! This is deception.

I do not believe that the judgement on the House of God is over and the judgment to condemnation has begun.

I might have missed it but I do not think that this is what the LOF http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html is teaching either.

Quote : Remember that there are two administrations of Godís purging fire: The first is on the House of God consisting of those whom God is calling to be overcomers and sons of God. The second will be at the second resurrection...

Are we in the second resurrection? i do not think so.

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)

Kat, we seem to have posted at the same time! :)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 12:41:56 PM by Arcturus »
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Wrath Revealed
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 01:15:27 PM »

Good question Charlie,

I have a "Reader's Digest" response to your question, as God's plan of salvation been revealed to us no one is yet saved, also the wrath of God has been revealed to us but no one has yet to be judged at the White Throne Judgment or purged in the Lake of Fire either.

Some (the elect) are being judged and purified in their own earthly time they will in fact become (with Christ) the Lake of Fire in bringing righteousness to all of mankind.


Isa 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


From Ray;

It is absolutely clear and irrefutable that the believers of I Tim. 4:10 are saved in a special way, that is, they are saved before the rest of humanity, and they are given the gift of eonian (age-abiding) life reigning with Christ in the Kingdom of God, ages before the rest of humanity are saved. Only those called and chosen NOW will EVER reign and rule and bring salvation to the rest of the world and to the universeóTHIS is a special gift of God to believers being called in this age ONLY. But Ö BUT, the rest of humanity WILL ALSO BE SAVED (albeit by way of the lake of fire in the great white throne judgment).

And so it is that long before the rest of humanity is purged through the lake of fire, believers must also be purged through FIRE. It is so sad that these things are not taught in Sunday school or church. Salvation is by grace through faith. But if we isolate these two words "grace" and "faith" from all the thousands of Scriptures that show us how grace and faith operate in the real world, then we will fail to see or understand the most fundamental of New Testament teachings. GAL, 2;20.

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

Great responses from Kat and Arcturus and it appears my intention of writing a short post once again fell by the wayside.  :-\

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe




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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Wrath Revealed
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2008, 04:58:58 PM »

Great thread!  Thanks all for the wisdom.
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Wrath Revealed
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2008, 06:50:13 PM »

Just to add the caution:

2Ti 2:16  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Ti 2:17  And their word will eat, as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
 
2Ti 2:18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
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fan55

  • Guest
Re: Wrath Revealed
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2008, 10:13:23 PM »

Thank you all for your kind welcomes and excellent input .  I've delayed my respond because I'm trying to understand what you've all said.  I'm a bit confused and too slow to learn.  Forgive me.

To answer Arc, no, I believe wrath is not being poured out on anyone now, but it is being revealed and is remaining.  How, is my question. How is His wrath revealed to those who suppress the truth?

Well I'll be darned, I think ??? the Lord has given me the answer just at this moment while studying the scriptures and typing this out.  Here it is, I think:

How is His wrath revealed to those who suppress the truth? ANS: He reveals His wrath to them personally!!  Oh, they  know its coming; BUT THEY DON'T CARE!!  They suppress the truth, which is defined in the next verse as "that which may be known of God", and included in that is His wrath, the unseen things of Him.   vs 20: For the unseen things of Him (TO INCLUDE HIS WRATH, I believe) from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse. That's why they are without excuse; they knew God's truth but but due to their weakness, still wanted to follow their own reasonings in spite of the fear that the Lord revealed to them should they continue in their ways!  21  Because knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful. But they became vain (foolish) in their reasonings, and their undiscerning heart was darkened.  They became fools because even after knowing that should they not obey the truth, they will anger Him, they still chose to continue in the evil ways. Now that's a fool!!  Once they became vain in their reasonings, once they chose that path, then their heart was darkened by our Lord.  But not all nonbelievers are like that.  Many, I believe, IMHO, are those who know Him thru things that are seen, not having heard of Christ.  Many are decent people who know of God in this manner and are made aware that things are to be done His way or they will suffer somehow. They have that healthy fear of Him.  They are those who are uncircumcised (in spirit) and yet do the things counted for circumcision (spirit).  Rom 2:26  Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27  And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?   They'll stand before the GWT but suffer few lashes, I humbly believe. 

In reference to Jo 3:36, His wrath is remaining, its still there, until the time is come to be poured out.

Anyway, that's what has come to my mind.  Whether its of the Lord or not, I'm not sure.  Maybe you all can help me some more see the truth of this wrath being revealed.

Once again, thanks for you input and please bear with me.   
 
Charlie


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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Wrath Revealed
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2008, 02:12:44 AM »

Hello fan55

I am glad you are seeing that the Scriptures show us that His wrath is not yet poured out. There is a time when it will be poured out. As for now, there is a type of His wrath, a shadow of what is to come when finally His wrath will be poured out.

For me this is revealed also in the Scripture you have posted, quote:

]Jo 3:36, His wrath is remaining,( is held back)  its still there, (there is every reason for it being still there as the defiance of God, the rejection of God and the rebellion against God is still being acted out in the weak spiritual condition of those children of darkness who refuse His light) until the time is come to be poured out.( When He comes to rule with a rod of iron and His judgements are in the earth.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 02:14:55 AM by Arcturus »
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