Something I noticed about Rays "Hell:C" Article...

[Origen II]

He kind of makes Egypt to be this horrible place. I understand that many heresies came from Egypt, but I think Ray forgot that Clement and Origen came from Alexandria, Egypt.

And they were some of the biggest proponents of Universal Salvation...

[SteveB]

He kind of makes Egypt to be this horrible place. I understand that many heresies came from Egypt, but I think Ray forgot that Clement and Origen came from Alexandria, Egypt.

And they were some of the biggest proponents of Universal Salvation...

Egypt being the center of 2-3rd centruy 'christian learning' may be telling us something. :shock:

Clement and Origen were both 'milk drinkers' as far as i can tell from there writings. They didnt see the deep things of the spirit

UR is the milk of the word...

Heb 6:1 Wherefore, dismissing the elementary discourse concerning the Christ, unto maturity, let us be tending, not, again, a foundation, laying down-of repentance from dead works, and of faith towards God,
Heb 6:2 Of immersions-in respect of teaching, and of the laying on of hands, of the resurrection of the dead, and of judgment age-abiding;-
Heb 6:3 And, this, will we do, if at least, God, permit.

Peace...Steve

[Origen II]

Yes...but they both believed in UR. So how were they 'milk drinkers' ?

[SOTW]

I have done extensive studies on Origen and his beliefs. I can tell from experience his writings and ideas are misunderstood by many just like Peter said Paul's writings were misunderstood. Much of everything Origen preached was not milk, it was the reason why there is so much hatred against him 300 years later.

His doctrines proposed salvation for all mankind and restoration of all things in Christ Jesus in which God subjected them to vanity in the first place for the purpose of having Children. Origen's writings out number those of any early Christian teacher and it was the manipulation of his writings years later that the church decided to call it heresy so Eternal Torment could be the justifiable end.

His believes in Free-Will but his definition of Free-Will is not the same Definition of Free-Will that is mainly used today. His definition of Free-Will is not the Free-Will which others in the Gospel of Universal Reconciliation fight against. The Free-Will I argue against along with many is the definition created by Augustine who lived 500 years after Origen and was one person who talk badly of Origen every time it was brought up. In fact, he went to ever effort to ensure that Origen was labeled a heretic.

Lastly, Egypt is a strange puppy. It is where most of the Lord's greatest achievements came from. Jesus Himself spent much time in Egypt in his first 30 years of life. So you have the Exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt, and Jesus who was on exodus to Egypt.

[love_magnified]

Yes...but they both believed in UR. So how were they 'milk drinkers' ?

The Corinthians believed in it as they were taught by Paul. They fell behind in no gift and they were yet carnal, suing eachother, getting involved with foolish doctrines, being easily swayed. So knowing UR is not enough to be spiritual or eating meat. To me, the meat of the word is in the application of it in our lives (not just knowing the symbols). The meat is understanding Christ within us. Christ within us is the steak.

[SteveB]

Origen II Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject:  



Yes...but they both believed in UR. So how were they 'milk drinkers' ?

UR is THE MILK OF THE WORD. That why i posted...

Heb 6:2 Of immersions-in respect of teaching, and of the laying on of hands, of the resurrection of the dead, and of judgment age-abiding;-

judgement 'age-abiding' is UR and everyone that uses these six doctrines ONLY is unskillfull in the Word...

Heb 5:12 For, even when ye ought to be teachers, by reason of the time, again, have ye, need, that one be teaching, you, what are the first principles of the oracles of God, and have become such as have, need, of milk, not, of strong food;
Heb 5:13 For, every one partaking of milk, is unskilled in discourse of righteousness, for he is, a babe;
Heb 5:14 But, to such as are mature, pertaineth, the strong food, to them who, by reason of habit, have their organs of perception well trained for discriminating both good and evil.

SOTW Wrote...
Much of everything Origen preached was not milk, it was the reason why there is so much hatred against him 300 years later.

Not saying this isn't true but Craig could you give me an example of this. I've read Origen havent seen this.

Lastly, Egypt is a strange puppy. It is where most of the Lord's greatest achievements came from. Jesus Himself spent much time in Egypt in his first 30 years of life. So you have the Exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt, and Jesus who was on exodus to Egypt.

The Lords greatest achievements came from Egypt? HOw so? Spiritual Eqypt, yes, but literal Egypt...

And how is it that we know that Christ spent 'much time' in Egypt? Not saying its not true. I may be missing something. We know He was there til Herod died, but as my memory serves we are not told how long this was.

The Corinthians believed in it as they were taught by Paul. They fell behind in no gift and they were yet carnal, suing eachother, getting involved with foolish doctrines, being easily swayed. So knowing UR is not enough to be spiritual or eating meat. To me, the meat of the word is in the application of it in our lives (not just knowing the symbols). The meat is understanding Christ within us. Christ within us is the steak.

YOu got it man! UR is THE MILK(SWEET AS IT IS) OF THE WORD! This loving your enemies, Christ dying in YOU(Col. 1:24) and BEING OF ONE MIND,  is THE OLE 96er STEAK of the Word.

As far a Origen goes MOST people thought very highly of him in his time, so this give me pause...

Luk 6:26 Alas! whensoever all men shall, speak well of you, for, according to the same things, were their fathers doing unto the false prophets.

I know he was persecuted and inprisoned late in life but he was the 'top scholor' of 'Chirstianity' at this time he was the, Bill Craig, Jp moreland, D. Jame Kennedy of his time. This should make you think.

And again I saw no 'stong meat' in his writings, but maybe i just didnt see them.

Peace...STeve

[Mickyd]

Egypt being the center of 2-3rd centruy 'christian learning' may be telling us something. :shock:

You're absolutely right! The more things change...the more they stay the same. There is nothing new under the sun.

"The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother: And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah." Ezekiel 23:1-4

"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." Revelation 17:5-6

John wondered with great admiration because he had been a part of her. The original MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH was Judaism. Of coarse she has given birth to many harlots...Christianity and Islam being the youngest...and those also have given birth to harlots and the list goes on and on.

"Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way, And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men portrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans portrayed with vermilion, Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in dyed attire upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity:" Ezekiel 23:13-15

"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and EGYPT, where also our Lord was crucified." Revelation 11:8

"And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, BABYLON the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Revelation 18:2

As we know birds spiritually represent false doctrines of which the Church of old (Judaism) was full of...as is her daughters.

When ever Egypt and or Babylon is mentioned in scripture, it is not always meaning the actual place.....but a spiritual "state".