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[Craig]

I found some of the same thing that Arcturus spoke of, that Ray teaches Annihilationism like the JW's, I found that off of Wikipedia, next to his Video's on Repentance.

What is the link you are talking about here?

Craig

[Samson]

Hello Craig,

                   Here is the Link that you requested: www.ukapologeticsindex.net; From, What is your Opinion of the Ministry of L Ray smith, Is he Armstrongist, Paragraph 4," Mr. Smith appears to accept Annihilationism". I was browsing around Wikipedia one day and stumbled upon this inaccurate quote about Rays beliefs.
                                          Your Brother in christ, Samson.

[Sorin]

Hello Craig,

                   Here is the Link that you requested: www.ukapologeticsindex.net; From, What is your Opinion of the Ministry of L Ray smith, Is he Armstrongist, Paragraph 4," Mr. Smith appears to accept Annihilationism". I was browsing around Wikipedia one day and stumbled upon this inaccurate quote about Rays beliefs.
                                          Your Brother in christ, Samson.

Hi Samson,

I think everyone here knows that Ray does not teach annihilation-however, annihilation is infinitely more merciful than the hell doctrine.
I'd rather God annihilated the masses, instead of torturing them alive 'forever and ever'....
I think christianity's problem with annihilation is they don't want them to get off that easy, they want them burned alive, tormented night and day for eternity, so they can watch them on their big screen HD TV's in heaven whilst eating popcorn and yelling at the screen 'I told you so! I told you so!".
Especially the Calvinists. Like that guy, or girl that used to post on here all the time Andreas or whatever. That was one of the most annoying posters, but that one guy, with his preacher, were the worst.
He had the nerve to post on here something like: " oh dear, these people don't know that scripture should be read only in context"   
or something like that... were'd he learn that bit of heresy, at the University of Man-Made Doctrines?

Sorry about the rant.

-Sorin

[Samson]

Hey Sorin,

               No need to apologize about the rant, I'm definitely guilty of that myself. As a former JW, I felt at one time that Annihilation was more merciful, hence my attraction to that Religion back in 1981, of course I eventually discovered the folly in that interpretation approximately 12-15 months, prior to my arrival here. I chose(Gods' Will for me) to join this Site, because I felt it best exemplified the "Universalist" position, although Ray doesn't like to use that term for us. Although I browse around at times, I have no desire to join or have joined any other religious Site, including the so-called Universalist ones. However, its' apparent to me that God led me to this Site after doing much reading and researching on the subject of Eventual Salvation for All, prior to my arrival. The thought of those self-righteous "Christians" gloating from Heaven eating popcorn as they watch everyone else suffer eternally is disturbing and arrogant on their part. If we don't get humbled in this life by our trials and sufferings, we will sooner or later. Their was a song, years ago entitled---- LORD ITS' HARD TO BE HUMBLE, their's some truth to that, thats' probably why we need God to do it for us or have someone else to Humble us. In the past, I've been humbled many times and I know that I needed it and deserved it.

                           Now I'm ranting, this post is supposed to be about Plagiarism, Sorry Everyone.

                                               Your Brother in Christ, Samson.

[dch1]

Hey dennis this has got to be a blatent example of plagiarism. It is taken from the LOF series installment XVI part C. The origin of endless punishment.   http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d980927.htm
It's sad when people steal to glorify themselves.

[David]

There's a universal salvation group on myspace that have quoted Rays work and encouraged people to read this site. I had a look through some of their posts many months ago, there didn't seem to be any plagiarism as such, just credited quotes here and there. They all seemed to be in agreement apart from one Catholic member, a young man in some ministry college babbling on about hermeneutics and exegeses etc. I'll see if I can find the link again and post it.

[Dennis Vogel]

Hey dennis this has got to be a blatent example of plagiarism. It is taken from the LOF series installment XVI part C. The origin of endless punishment.   http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d980927.htm
It's sad when people steal to glorify themselves.

Probably not. I'm pretty sure Ray knows/knew Ernest L. Martin.

BTW, Ray has never stated every idea on BT is original. Of course others have known some of these truths before we started BT.

But I believe Ray is breaking new ground (at least for this generation).

Dennis

[David]

Hello Craig,

                   Here is the Link that you requested: www.ukapologeticsindex.net; From, What is your Opinion of the Ministry of L Ray smith, Is he Armstrongist, Paragraph 4," Mr. Smith appears to accept Annihilationism". I was browsing around Wikipedia one day and stumbled upon this inaccurate quote about Rays beliefs.
                                          Your Brother in christ, Samson.

Hi Samson,

I think everyone here knows that Ray does not teach annihilation-however, annihilation is infinitely more merciful than the hell doctrine.
I'd rather God annihilated the masses, instead of torturing them alive 'forever and ever'....
I think christianity's problem with annihilation is they don't want them to get off that easy, they want them burned alive, tormented night and day for eternity, so they can watch them on their big screen HD TV's in heaven whilst eating popcorn and yelling at the screen 'I told you so! I told you so!".
Especially the Calvinists. Like that guy, or girl that used to post on here all the time Andreas or whatever. That was one of the most annoying posters, but that one guy, with his preacher, were the worst.
He had the nerve to post on here something like: " oh dear, these people don't know that scripture should be read only in context"   
or something like that... were'd he learn that bit of heresy, at the University of Man-Made Doctrines?

Sorry about the rant.

-Sorin

A couple of years ago I watched some stuff on Google by  David Asscherick, from a SDA ministry. They seem to be very keen on this annihilation doctrine. 

[Dennis Vogel]

Hey dennis this has got to be a blatent example of plagiarism. It is taken from the LOF series installment XVI part C. The origin of endless punishment.   http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d980927.htm
It's sad when people steal to glorify themselves.

I asked Ray to write a few words about Dr Martin.

Denny:

I knew Dr. Ernest Martin since 1967 (that's over 40 years). The last time we studied together was back in 1982, I believe, when he flew out from California to Mobile where I lived at the time and we spent a long weekend together.  We were both familiar with the Concordant Publishing Concern and had agreed on certain things they taught: Namely Universal Reconciliation.  And so I have been familiar with his work and research for a long time. Some things Dr. Martin did not see. He felt the "Lake of Fire" would be a literal place in the future in Palestine. He also did not comprehend the Sovereignty of God and man's lack of a free will. That is until a few months before he died. Shortly after he died a friend who knew him well up in Portland, Oregon informed me that Dr. Martin came to realize that man absolutely did not have a free will and that God is totally Sovereign. I was very glad to hear that.  I gave Dr. Martin credit for some of my outline on "The Cano nization of the Scriptures" which I taught at our last Conference, if some of you remember.  So he learned some things before I did, and I learned some things before he did.  Shortly after his death I was asked by the man left in charge of his work if I would care to help take over the work of Dr. Martin. I graciously declined. We were not agreed everything, that's for sure, but even more, we have our hands full with bible-truths.com.

God be with you,
Ray

[musicman]

I just read that article by Dr. Martin concerning the church.  Very good article but definitatly not plagerized from Ray.  I saw a few holes in his teachings that I don't believe Ray would agree with.  Furthur, I checked the web page (run by others now) and it appears that he doesn't believe in judgement as being chastizement.  Unless I misread he even refers to judement as being a time when all are rewarded due to Christ's sacrifice.  I think it's his work.  Now I'm not sure.  But according to what I read, Christ took an earthly punishment for all man's sins and so nobody will have to suffer for sin in the next life.  All payment of sin takes place in the physical life eventually ending in death.  I did'nt read much more after that.