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Another JW question..HELP!!!
vicolive:
Hi All
As I have stated before I have a freind that is a JW,she has been trying to win me to her side,likewise I have been trying to witness to her.Today I showed her in Is.40-3 in her bible which reads ..make a straight road through it for Jehovah! then over to Math 3-3 which also states the name Jehovah...{both God} to prove to her that John was talking about preparing the way for Jesus.....Where it was fulfiled in math 3-3.She told me that Jehovah was there meaning it was Gods messenger,Jesusand that they were not one and the same....is she right? I really thought I was going to finally convince her that Jesus was not a god as they believe.Then she went on to tell me that with my beliefs{as all of yours} that I was not saved and only the JW'S are saved and going to heaven{paradise}
Im really getting bugged about all this,and many of you have reached out to me and I give my thanks,they are so convinced and its scary to think {by what they believe} that millions are decieved by our beliefs and they are the only way
Thanks Vic
rjsurfs:
Hi Vic,
My concern is more for you than your JW friend... the fact that you are "getting bugged" about all this. Remember, it is not our responsibility to convert people... that is for God to do only. So I wouldn't expect you to make any progress in the effort as it may not be God's time to allow the light of truth to shine in this person's life.
You have probably read the Paper "Winning Souls for Jesus" at http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm
It is a great read. Here is a snippet:
It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.
It is GOD who does the calling:
"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? ‘GOD’] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty…" (I Cor. 1:26-27).
It is GOD who does the dragging:
"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: ‘drag him’]…" (John 6:44).
It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:
"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).
Eventually this will include all mankind:
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).
And all will respond to God’s judgments and chastisements:
"That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those in earth, and those under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11—See also Isa. 26:9b).
And let’s not forget:
"…no man CAN say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12:3b).
Which is totally contrary to the horrible teachings of such men as John Hagee and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject. Herbert Armstrong said: "Yes, every knee will bow, and if they don’t GOD WILL BREAK THEIR KNEES." Oh the unscriptural foolishness of carnal—minded men.
But do orthodox Christians believe that these Scriptures mean what they say? Of course not, and that is why they quote Phil. 2:12 "…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," thinking that this takes Sovereignty away from God and places it back with man and his fabled "free will." Not so. They forget to read the next verse which tells us why we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling:
"For [‘for’ means ‘because’] it is GOD [Who? Man? NO! ‘GOD’] which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
Bobby
vicolive:
Thanks Bobby, thanks for the refresher....
Samson:
Hello Vivolive,
I was a J.W. for twenty years (1983-2003), as stated in my introduction when joining our forum, the main problem with The Watchtower Org is their extreme legalistic nature in that if you don't accept their understanding on every Bible and Non-Bible related subjects, you could possibly be expelled from the Org. This expulsion includes not even saying a common greeting like Hello or any type of minimal association. A Christian might want to limit their association, socially speaking, with unrepentant wrongdoers as expressed at 1Cor. 5 and 1Cor. 6:9,10 because these individuals mentioned in these verses are advocating and practicing these things and could present an unhealthy association, however the J.W's take this avoidance of association to an extreme level. As you can see from your J.W. friends perspective, her form of Non-Trinitarianism differs from Ours. She believes that God the Father and Yahweh are synonomous. When first joining this site, I had some difficulty accepting that Jesus is the Yahweh of the old testament, but instead of letting my emotions get the best of me, I meditated on the information presented by Ray and the point that helped me was that Yahweh is never called God the Father and Jesus said that no one knew his Father, except him, yet people in the Bible knew Yahweh and Jesus. Also this issue regarding the Trinity versus Non-Trinity wasn't that important to me, instead the true meaning of Aion and the fact that God isn't going to Eternally roast and toast people or Eternally end their existence(like J.Ws' believe) was essential to me. You might want to avoid this nature/substance/essence subject regarding the Father/Son relationship, maybe as a suggestion focus on the fact that its' Gods Will that All will be saved and that God loves his enemies like Jesus tells us to. In doing that, I wouldn't mention that Man doesn't have a Free-Will as of yet, that will open up another discussion with no end in site. J.Ws' are trained with a predictable list of " proof text " scriptures on virtually every subject, whenever your able to break that pattern with them, they usually get confused and will probably change the subject. The J.Ws' usually express the thought that " How could a Loving God Eternally Torment a person based on what they did or didn't do during such a short-life". You could possibly use that to your advantage by applying that thought by saying " How could a Loving God Eternally Annihilate everyone based on their conduct in such a short life-span". Realistically all of this is most difficult at best. I would recommend getting information written by former Governing Body member Raymond Franz, he happens to be a friend of mine and I've been corresponding with him for four years. I wouldn't mention to her that your quoting from any of his material, as he is branded an Apostate by the J.W. Org, he is considered one of the Top Villians according to them. I consider him a very good man, even sent him some information about the correct definition of the Greek Word AION. I'm hoping to tactfully present some more of the information on this Site in small doses. Its' very difficult to convince a J.W. of anything, unless their already experiencing doubts or have recently had a traumatic life's experience regarding their beliefs or an obvious Watchtower Hypocrisy, as an example( the recent Sex Scandal in their Organization and the mishandling of it ). I did a thorough research on the J.W,s during my exiting stage and thereafter on practically every angle. Please feel free to ask me anything further, if I don't know the answer, I have the resources to obtain the answer. Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
psalmsinger:
Samson,
So I'll ask ;D Is the Bible New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (old and new testaments) the same as "the common diaglot" a little blue new testament used by the JW's that Ray mentions in his papers? I probably misspelled the words in quotes. Is it true that if you leave the JW flock that you are shunned even by your family and parents forever, unless you show their type of true repentance? Thanks,
Rest in the Lord,
Barbara
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