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Romans 1:20

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phazel:

I think verses like this is how free will can stick into our thinking so strongly.

Romans 1: 20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

My specific inquiry is about the last part, "So they are without excuse"  some versions say "so men are without excuse".   This verse is used a lot to show that even though some have never heard the name of christ they still are without excuse to believe.

Well,  considering what I have learned I must view this verse in light of Gods control and our lack of free will.   As with other things, once God gives it to us, it is ours, whether we have free will or not is irrevalent to it being ours.  My nose is "my" nose whether God is in control of me or not.

So with that said,  I get the sense that  being without excuse is a deeper meaning to his teaching.   If we are on a journey for learning then we must possess the tools that cause us to be capable of it.   Verse 21 implies that people knew God based on verse 20  and then rejected him and the implication is that they had no excuse to do so.

I see it as God intends for that (verse 21) to happen, but he has given us the means to understand one day that it is all about him.  Without the possession of knowledge given in verse 20, that could not happen.
I am sure I have over simplified it, possibly, but thats where I am at right now about it.

Thoughts anyone?

Deborah-Leigh:

To be "without excuse" as I understand this, is to be accountable! We are all accountable with or without knowledge of God.  :D

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)

Kat:

Hi Phazel,

I tend to have a very simplistic view of these verses.

Rom 1:20  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made...

To me this is saying that we all see the creation - the things that are made, therefore because all this exists, we have evidence in what we can actually see in the world.  Where did all this come from?  Evolution, well even that had a beginning.  So how can we not believe there is a God - A Creator of all this. 

... even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

If we have thw evidence by seeing all this creation around us, then we are without excuse, in believing that there is a God that created it.

Rom 1:21  because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

So we know all this came about some how, but foolish people try to say it all evolved or just ignore the idea that they were given this life by a Supreme Being.  And they certainly are not thankful to Him.  So man has come up with unintelligent ideas and their reasoning is futile.  Even those that have never heard of Christ are witnessed to by the creation itself, so even they are without excuse.

Just sharing my thoughts on this  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

phazel:


Thank you for the replies.

Arcturas, Kat,   one of my thoughts about that verse in light of Gods true plan for "everyone" is that no one actually does not believe in God in some manner.   It is possibly why we have a verse that states a Fool says there is no God.   Christians may find a use for that verse to insult, but I see it as a simple statement that everyone has some sense that there is something greater then themselves beyond this life whether they openly admit it or not.


I do try to see a deeper meaning to scripture that may or may not be true in light of my original post.

Chris R:
Hi ,

"Without Excuse"   anapologētos, is more in the line of having no "Defense", When God judges the earth, Paul taught us this:

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?   God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.    But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? [Is] God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)  God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? [Rom 3:3-6]

There can be NO defense, for God to judge the world with Righteousness.!

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.


 Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

 Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.-

Chris R

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