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Calvanists say this, Help?
Sorin:
--- Quote from: musicman on February 10, 2008, 10:07:15 AM ---Such a debate would be likened to two blind men arguing over the proper way of driving a car. Go this way, no that way, go faster. . . . They wouldn't even realize that they're driving over a cliff.
--- End quote ---
Amen Brother! :D
Martinez:
It is the most ridiculous thing in the world to say that God does not love us the way we are now, that's like I don't love my child because they haven't grown up yet!
I despise Calvinism, I mean Christianity is evil but Calvinism takes it to a whole new level!
Sorin:
--- Quote from: Martinez on February 14, 2008, 03:11:33 PM ---It is the most ridiculous thing in the world to say that God does not love us the way we are now, that's like I don't love my child because they haven't grown up yet!
--- End quote ---
Well....okay, maybe not God not loving us the way we are now, but He does love some more than others. He favors some over others-hence the vessels of honor, and vessels of dishonor. He blesses some while curses others. And don't forget about Esau...etc...
--- Quote from: Martinez ---]I despise Calvinism, I mean Christianity is evil but Calvinism takes it to a whole new level!
--- End quote ---
On that we can agree!
Linny:
I am thinking on this...
"Well....okay, maybe not God not loving us the way we are now, but He does love some more than others. He favors some over others-hence the vessels of honor, and vessels of dishonor. He blesses some while curses others. And don't forget about Esau...etc..."
My take on this is that God doen't love some more than others but chooses some over others in order to fullfill His purposes. Like Judas for example or us by opening our eyes to these truths. I believe I have more favor because I believe it, speak it, and thank Him for it beforehand, not because he favors me more than someone else. I think favor is there for the asking/taking. I think we bring on most of our own curses through our sin, poor decisions, lack of looking up, lack of faith.
Scripture says He is no respecter of persons....
Just my OSHO....
Kat:
Hi Linny,
--- Quote ---I believe I have more favor because I believe it, speak it, and thank Him for it beforehand, not because he favors me more than someone else. I think favor is there for the asking/taking.
--- End quote ---
I was looking at what you are saying here. You say, I think favor is there for the asking/taking and I have more favor because I...
This sound a lot like free will thinking. Can we really obtain favor in any way by what WE do?
Here is an email from Ray concerning this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,567.0.html --------
True, God in His great mercy create situations and circumstances where He draws us, but ultimately w e can choose whether we want to go to God when He draws us to Christ. It's just that some people die before they make the decision. It's His Spirit alone that can convince us of the truth, no human argument whatsoever. It's through Christ alone we can be with God, right?
If I misinterpret your website, please forgive me.
[Ray replies]
We cannot "make the decision" as you state unless God gives us that ability. Faith to believe is a gift of God (Eph. 2:08). Repentance is a gift from God (Rom. 2:4). None CAN come to Christ unless God draws (Gk: 'drags') them (John 6:44). We do NOT "choose Christ," but rather Christ CHOOSES US (John 15:16). ALL IS OF GOD, Romans 11:32, etc., etc., etc.
No one dies before they "have a CHANCE" to follow Christ. Salvation is not a matter of "chance." This is not the only day of salvation.
Be sure you read all of my series on the "Free Will Myth."
God be with you,
Ray
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