Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Evan600]

I'm looking for some insight on this subject.  I'm hoping that someone can help me out here.

I realize that the "breath of life" combined with the body, is what makes the soul, as Genesis clearly states.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [H5397, neshâmâh] of life; and man became a living soul.

The problem that I see with this, is that this is not the Hebrew ruach.  Ruach is the word that is used for spirit, such as the Spirit of God.  We know that man has a ruach.

Ecc 1:14  I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit [H7307, rûach].

Does anyone understand what the "ruach" of man is?

Thanks, and may God bless you all!

- Jason

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Jason,

Great to see you here! Are you still planning to attend the Conference? Have you ever heard from the other guy (sorry I forgot his name) who ate lunch with us that Sunday?

OK, enough questions. 

As far as your question, did you check Strong's because the definition seemed pretty clear, although this one word has a variety of meanings, and if you search "spirit," and "breath" you will find a few Hebrew words are translated into these English words (spirit/breath).

H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

The above (in bold) seems to fit.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed5301 into his nostrils the breath5397 of life; and man became a living soul.

H5301
נפח
nâphach
naw-fakh'
A primitive root; to puff, in various applications (literally, to inflate, blow hard, scatter, kindle, expire; figuratively, to disesteem): - blow, breath, give up, cause to lose [life], seething, snuff.

This appears to be clear as well.


H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

Vital breath, divine inspiration, it works for me as blowing into the nostrils of a clay dummy or statue and it comes to life breathing on it's own is certainly only accomplished by the One who is Divine!

Peace to you Brother,

Joe

[Kat]

Hi Jason,

I think Joe gave you the needed definitions. 

It is this breath from God that gives 'life' to all being that physically needs to breathe to live.

Psa 104:29  Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath (7307 - ruach), they die, and return to their dust.
Psa 104:30  Thou sendest forth thy spirit (7307 - ruach), they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
 
It is also referred to as the 'mind.'

Eze 11:5 ...Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind (7307 - ruach), every one of them.

The Holy Spirit also comes from God, but serves a different purpose, it is given to the Elect, but the difference is it is to give 'spiritual life' to those receiving it.  Now in this physical life it is only the ernest or downpayment of God's Holy Spirit, to be received in full for those that endure to the end and are raised at the first resurrection.

Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit (4151 - pneuma) of promise,
Eph 1:14  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Here is an email from Ray on the subject.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html -----
 
    Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46;  I Cor. 2:11; etc.).  There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body.
   God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul."  We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."

    God be with you,
    Ray

[Gregor]

Greetings,
According to Ray's email, would this indicate that animals also have soul, that is a spirit combined with a body?

[Kat]

Hi Gregor,

Is that a serious question?
Anyway, animals and man have the same breath and when they die they return to dust.

Ecc 3:20  All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.
Ecc 3:21  Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

But man's flesh/body is different from animals, as Paul state it.

1Co 15:39  All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

And further more only man's spirit returns to God, so to be raised from the dead.

Ecc 12:7  Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. 

I don't recall any Scripture about animals being raised.
Animals do not have conscience, nor do not have minds to reason.

5590 soul psuchē -  breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, soul; heart, life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,655.0.html ---------

You are not paying attention to my writings. The consciousness is not in the body, and it is not in the spirit. The consciousness of man is in his soul, and his soul is resultant outcome of our spirit being united with a body. God breathed the breath and spirit of life into the man formed from the dust of the ground, and the man then BECAME a living soul. He BECAME conscious of his own being. At death we are no longer conscious of our being or our death. Our spirit must be reunited with a new body in resurrection before we will regain the soul and consciousness that we had before we died.

God be with you,
Ray

[Gregor]

Greetings Kat,
Yes it was a serious question. I appreciate your thorough answer too.
Blessings,
G.

[Evan600]

Greetings,
According to Ray's email, would this indicate that animals also have soul, that is a spirit combined with a body?

Hi Gregor,

According to the Scripture, animals ARE souls.

Gen 1:21  And God created great whales, and every living creature [H5315, Nephesh] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

This gets confusing.  I'm trying to understand this entire concept of the soul and spirit.  Look at Genesis 2:

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [H5397, neshâmâh] of life; and man became a living soul [H5315, Nephesh].

Man and everything that basically moves, and has flesh, is a soul.  They have different flesh as Kat brought out,  but they are both souls.

In Christ,

Jason

[Evan600]

Hi Jason,

Great to see you here! Are you still planning to attend the Conference? Have you ever heard from the other guy (sorry I forgot his name) who ate lunch with us that Sunday?

Hi Joe!

I am planning on attending this year, Lord willing.  I really want to go.  The other guy?  I'm not sure which guy you're talking about.  Do you mean the guy from Chicago? 

OK, enough questions. 

As far as your question, did you check Strong's because the definition seemed pretty clear, although this one word has a variety of meanings, and if you search "spirit," and "breath" you will find a few Hebrew words are translated into these English words (spirit/breath).[/color]

H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

The above (in bold) seems to fit.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed5301 into his nostrils the breath5397 of life; and man became a living soul.

H5301
נפח
nâphach
naw-fakh'
A primitive root; to puff, in various applications (literally, to inflate, blow hard, scatter, kindle, expire; figuratively, to disesteem): - blow, breath, give up, cause to lose [life], seething, snuff.

This appears to be clear as well.


H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

Vital breath, divine inspiration, it works for me as blowing into the nostrils of a clay dummy or statue and it comes to life breathing on it's own is certainly only accomplished by the One who is Divine!

Peace to you Brother,

Joe

Thanks for this info Joe.  I just have a really hard time using Strong's as an authority of definitions of words.  It's a good starting place, but I like to find out where these words are used in different verses of Scripture.

Why did they have to use the SAME English word for 2 different Hebrew words?  Something that brings more light to the subject is in Proverbs:

Pro 20:27  The spirit [H5397, neshâmâh] of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

This is the same "breath" that God breaths in man that is His candle.

My biggest question comes from Hebrews.

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul [G5590, psuche] and spirit [G4151, pneuma], and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I appreciate your insight here, but I still cannot seem to wrap this concept around my head totally.

Take care,

Jason

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Jason,

Yes, I believe he was from Chicago now that you mention it, we all sat at the same table on the last day of the Conference.

In regard to Hebrews 4:12;

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The following may not answer your question but this is how I perceive this verse.

When we separate the spirit from the soul what do we have remaining?

The flesh, the carnal nature.

With our heart being deceitful above all things and evil spirits, doctrines, revelations that can appear as angels of light we have the Word of God as our bedrock, our foundation.

Pro 14:12  There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Isa 8:20  To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

I know your question had more to do with the root words regarding spirit/breath but my view encompasses the entire verse, sorry for swerving off the subject at hand.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Kat]

Hi Jason,

Heb. 4:12 I believe is talking about our inner most being.  Both the spirit that that gives all living things awareness-life-being, even spirit beings have this.  And the soul which I'm thinking is only for physical creators, as angels are never referred to as having a soul.  But these words have a close connection in there meaning and so they do overlap in there use in the Scripture to a degree.

But looking at all the ways it is translated gives you a better sense of the word.
I use the 'New American Exhaustive Concordance,' this I find very helpful to see just how the Hebrew and Greek words are used throughout the Scriptures.  Maybe this will help.
This shows what word was used for the original and how many times.

soul in the NT
G5590
ψυχή
psuchē; of unc. or.; breath, the soul: - heart (2), heartily (1), life (36), lives (7), mind (1), minds (1), person (1), persons (3), soul (33), souls (14), suspense *(1), thing (1).

spirit in the NT
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma; from G4154; wind, spirit: - breath (3), Spirit (239), spirit (103), spirits (32), spiritual (1), wind (1), winds (1).

soul in the OT
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh (659b); from an unused word; a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion : - any (1), anyone (2), anyone *(1), appetite (7), being (1), beings (3), body (1), breath (1), corpse (2), creature (6), creatures (3), dead (1), dead person (2), deadly (1), death (1), defenseless *(1), desire (12), desire *(2), discontented *(1), endure *(1), feelings (1), fierce *(2), greedy *(1), heart (5), heart’s (2), herself (12), Himself (4), himself (19), human (1), human being (1), hunger (1), life (146), life *(1), lifeblood *(2), lives (34), living creature (1), longing *(1), man (4), man’s (1), men *(2), mind (2), Myself (3), myself (2), number (1), ones (1), others (1), ourselves (3), own (1), passion *(1), people (2), people *(1), perfume *(1), person (68), person *(1), persons (19), slave (1), some (1), soul (238), soul’s (1), souls (12), strength (1), themselves (6), thirst (1), throat (2), will (1), wish (1), wishes (1), yourself (11), yourselves (13).

spirit in the OT
H7307
רוּח
ruach (924c); from an unused word; breath, wind, spirit: - air (2), anger (1), blast (2), breath (31), breathless *(1), cool (1), courage (1), despondency *(1), exposed (1), grief *(1), heart (1), inspired (1), mind (3), motives (1), points (1), quick-tempered *(1), side (4), sides (2), Spirit (76), spirit (127), spirits (3), strength (1), temper (2), thoughts *(1), trustworthy *(1), wind (98), winds (7), windy (2), wrath (1).

I also have the King James Concordance that gives all the Scripture where these words were used, if you need that.  (All came from E-Sword)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Evan600]

Hi Kat,

Do you have the 'New American Exhaustive Concordance' on esword? 

I have the King James concordance on there, but I would be interested in seeing the other one if they make it for esword.

Thanks,

Jason

[Kat]

Hi Jason,

No I don't have that one.  But here are a couple that may be of interest to you.

Thayer's Greek Definitions ---

soul
G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
Thayer Definition:
1) breath
   1a) the breath of life
      1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
      1a1a) of animals
      1a1b) of men
   1b) life
   1c) that in which there is life
      1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
   2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
   2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
   2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

spirit
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
Thayer Definition:
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
   1a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \\Holy\\ Spirit)
   1b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \\Truth\\)
   1c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
   2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
   2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
   3a) a life giving spirit
   3b) a human soul that has left the body
   3c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
      3c1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
      3c2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
   4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5) a movement of air (a gentle blast)
   5a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
   5b) breath of nostrils or mouth


Barnes ---

Piercing even to the dividing asunder - Penetrating so as to divide.
Soul and spirit - The animal life from the immortal soul. The former word here - ψυχή  psuchē - “soul” - is evidently used to denote the “animal life,” as distinguished from the mind or soul. The latter word - πνεῦμα  pneuma - “spirit” - means the soul; the immaterial and immortal part; what lives when the animal life is extinct. This distinction occurs in 1Th_5:23, “your whole spirit, and soul, and body;” and it is a distinction which we are constantly in the habit of making. There is the body in man - the animal life - and the immortal part that leaves the body when life is extinct. Mysteriously united, they constitute one man. When the animal life is separated from the soul, or when the soul leaves the animated body, the body dies, and life is extinct. To separate the one from the other is, therefore, the same as to take life - and this is the idea here, that the Word of God is like a sharp sword that inflicts deadly wounds. The sinner “dies;” that is, he becomes dead to his former hopes, or is “slain” by the Law; Rom_7:9, “I was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” This is the power referred to here - the power of destroying the hopes of the sinner; cutting him down under conviction; and prostrating him as if a sword had pierced his heart.

Vincent ---

Even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of the joints and marrow (ἄρχι μερισμοῦ ψυχῆς καὶ πνεύματος ἁρμῶν τε καὶ μυελῶν)
Μερισμὸς dividing, only here and Heb_2:4, is not to be understood of dividing soul from spirit or joints from marrow. Soul and spirit cannot be said to be separated in any such sense as this, and joints and marrow are not in contact with each other. Μερισμὸς is the act of division; not the point or line of division. Joints and marrow are not to be taken in a literal and material sense. In rendering, construe soul, spirit, joints, marrow, as all dependent on dividing. Joints and marrow (ἁρμῶν, μυελῶν, N.T.o ) are to be taken figuratively as joints and marrow of soul and spirit. This figurative sense is exemplified in classical usage, as Eurip. Hippol. 255, “to form moderate friendships, and not πρὸς ἄρκον μυελὸν ψυχῆς to the deep marrow of the soul.” The conception of depth applied to the soul is on the same figurative line. See Aesch. Agam. 778; Eurip. Bacch. 203. Attempts to explain on any psychological basis are futile. The form of expression is poetical, and signifies that the word penetrates to the inmost recesses of our spiritual being as a sword cuts through the joints and marrow of the body. The separation is not of one part from another, but operates in each department of the spiritual nature. The expression is expanded and defined by the next clause.
------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Evan600]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all of your information.

There are some things that those definitions from other scholars that just aren't answering my questions.

The trouble that I'm having goes something like this:

What if someone that believes that others go to 'heaven' when they die, asks me what paradise is?

Luk 23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

They use this Scripture, along with where Paul talks about someone going there.

2Co 12:3  And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4  How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Personally, I don't think that Paul was talking about himself here, but about the thief on the cross.

Anyway, this also brings to mind something about Stephen.

Act 7:59  And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

This word is pneuma.  This is different than the breath of life, as far as the Septuagint goes.  We also know that Jesus' spirit went to God, just like this.

Luk 23:46  And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Of course, at the end of this verse, it talks about Christ giving up the ghost.  The word that is used here for "gave up the ghost," is only used in the three instances about Jesus dying.

I'm looking for clarification here because I know that I am going to be asked about these different things.  That being "paradise" and this "spirit" of man that goes to God.

I would appreciate some Scriptures, rather than definitions from other scholars.  Although those were helpful, and I appreciated them.

Thank you for your time!

In Christ,

Jason

[phazel]

Luk 23:46  And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Of course, at the end of this verse, it talks about Christ giving up the ghost.  The word that is used here for "gave up the ghost," is only used in the three instances about Jesus dying.

Just a quick note about gave up the ghost.   

I am not sure "Ghost" is accurate.

The concordant is worded as follows

Luke 23:46 And shouting with a loud voice, Jesus said,  "Father, into Thy hands am I committing My spirit."  Now, saying this, He expires.


I have heard non believers who believe in Ghosts use that term to describe someone dying.  I suppose from that perspective our body upon death releases our Ghost which various beliefs think all kinds of things about that.

[hillsbororiver]

What if someone that believes that others go to 'heaven' when they die, asks me what paradise is?

Luk 23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 Paradise
« on: June 14, 2007, 05:42:53 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ray...in a past e-mail a woman commented on Jesus going to Paradise after
> his death on the cross, you commented that nowhere does the Bible state
> Jesus was ever in Paradise... Luke 23:43 ..."Assuredly I
> say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." Either Jesus was in
> Paradise that day or you are stating that Jesus was a liar.
> Amber O'Brien
>

Dear Amber:

    That's pretty strong language to accuse me of making Christ a LIAR, Amber.
    You are assuming numerous things that are not necessarily Biblical at all.
    What is "paradise?"  Where is it?  Are you sure? Do you have Scriptural proof?
    Jesus "DIED" for our sins according to the Scriptures (I Cor. 15:3). And after
    Jesus DIED, He was DEAD (a Scriptural and scientific truth denied by most
    of Christendom).  God the Father raised Jesus 'FROM THE DEAD' (Gal. 1:1),
    which is proof that Jesus WAS DEAD!  And if He was DEAD in the tomb,
    He was not LIVING at some other location called "paradise." Do I also make
    the Scriptures LIE when I present these Scriptural truths?  If as you suggest,
    Jesus was LIVING IN PARADISE on the very day that the Scriptures say Jesus
    would be DEAD IN A TOMB, then there is a contradiction, is there not?
     
    There was no punctuation in the original manuscripts from which our modern
    language bibles have been translated. Not that punctuation did not exist in
    the SPOKEN language, but it was not put into the written language. Hence,
    the very placement of a simple comma (,) can totally change the meaning of
    statement:  Even in speaking, we can place comas and change emphasis.
    Example:  "What's that up in the road ahead?" Versus:  "What's that up in
    the road, a head?"
     
    Here is this same verse from a few other translations:
     
    "Verily, to you am I saying today,  with Me SHALL YOU BE [at a future time] in paradise"
    (Concordant Literal New Testament).
     
    "And he said unto him—Verily, I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise"
    (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible).
     
    God be with you,
    Ray
     
    PS   One day I will write a paper on all the Christian nonsense about Jesus taking a trip
    to an alfter-life holding pen, where He supposedly preached the gospel to "spirits in prison,"
    when He was supposed to be dead in the tomb, paying for the sins of the world, but not today.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4646.0.html

Hi Jason,

Maybe you want to review this article again. http://bible-truths.com/death.htm

His Peace to you,

Joe


 

[Evan600]

What if someone that believes that others go to 'heaven' when they die, asks me what paradise is?

Luk 23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 Paradise
« on: June 14, 2007, 05:42:53 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ray...in a past e-mail a woman commented on Jesus going to Paradise after
> his death on the cross, you commented that nowhere does the Bible state
> Jesus was ever in Paradise... Luke 23:43 ..."Assuredly I
> say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." Either Jesus was in
> Paradise that day or you are stating that Jesus was a liar.
> Amber O'Brien
>

Dear Amber:

    That's pretty strong language to accuse me of making Christ a LIAR, Amber.
    You are assuming numerous things that are not necessarily Biblical at all.
    What is "paradise?"  Where is it?  Are you sure? Do you have Scriptural proof?
    Jesus "DIED" for our sins according to the Scriptures (I Cor. 15:3). And after
    Jesus DIED, He was DEAD (a Scriptural and scientific truth denied by most
    of Christendom).  God the Father raised Jesus 'FROM THE DEAD' (Gal. 1:1),
    which is proof that Jesus WAS DEAD!  And if He was DEAD in the tomb,
    He was not LIVING at some other location called "paradise." Do I also make
    the Scriptures LIE when I present these Scriptural truths?  If as you suggest,
    Jesus was LIVING IN PARADISE on the very day that the Scriptures say Jesus
    would be DEAD IN A TOMB, then there is a contradiction, is there not?
     
    There was no punctuation in the original manuscripts from which our modern
    language bibles have been translated. Not that punctuation did not exist in
    the SPOKEN language, but it was not put into the written language. Hence,
    the very placement of a simple coma (,) can totally change the meaning of
    statement:  Even in speaking, we can place comas and change emphasis.
    Example:  "What's that up in the road ahead?" Versus:  "What's that up in
    the road, a head?"
     
    Here is this same verse from a few other translations:
     
    "Verily, to you am I saying today,  with Me SHALL YOU BE [at a future time] in paradise"
    (Concordant Literal New Testament).
     
    "And he said unto him—Verily, I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise"
    (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible).
     
    God be with you,
    Ray
     
    PS   One day I will write a paper on all the Christian nonsense about Jesus taking a trip
    to an alfter-life holding pen, where He supposedly preached the gospel to "spirits in prison,"
    when He was supposed to be dead in the tomb, paying for the sins of the world, but not today.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4646.0.html

Hi Jason,

A more precise translation has it written;

Luke 23:43 And he said unto him- Verily I say unto thee this day: With me thou shalt be in Paradise (Rotherham's)

Maybe you want to review this article again. http://bible-truths.com/death.htm

His Peace to you,

Joe


 

Joe,

Thank you soooo much!!!  That has clarified a ton for me!  Words can't even describe how thankful I am for this understanding!

Take care,

Jason