God not willing for anyone to perish

[phazel]

I had an opportunity yesterday to put the foundational truths scriptures and concept to use.  A conversation presented that opportunity rather than me seeking out someone just to prove something to them.

It was a friend at church that really wanted to know why I left.  I gave my very basic answer at first that I had come to a realization that my beliefs were no longer compatible with things most churches teach; the two biggies being universal salvation and no free will.


My friend started arguing free will and I said, well,  let me give you a few scriptures that I have come to believe and I especially focused on the 2 Peter 3:9.  I said, I simply believe that and if this verse is true, how will our will cause God to fail?


After the stammering and stuttering I could hear his mind breaking under the load of truth.  We ended the conversation on good terms, so I am hopeful that God used me in a positive way for my friend.

Ray really gave us a great thing there.  Literally every scripture my friend brought up contradicted one of the 7 scriptures.  This was no surprise, but I found it interesting that my friend really was avoiding that fact.

Anyway, it was a blessing more so because I wasn't just arguing to be right, it was just an opportunity to share.

[hillsbororiver]

Anyway, it was a blessing more so because I wasn't just arguing to be right, it was just an opportunity to share.

Hi phazel,

It is a discerning spirit who is maturing in Christ that can recognize and appreciate the difference.

Thank you for the uplifting post.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Little Joe]

Phazel,

That was a good post.  Thanks for sharing. I've experienced the same thing as you at times. We don't need to strive in sharing our faith.  God will give us opportunities as we are ready. 

[Samson]

Great Post Phazel,

                          That is one of my favorite Scriptures, 2Peter.3:9, its' very difficult for anyone to twist that Scripture, can you imagine God desiring or willing something and it not coming true, thats' like calling him a Liar.                       
                                            Your Brother, Samson.

[Martinez]

I once had a strange dream about that particular verse.

I was reading my Bible when God showed me that particular verse and I just started sobbing uncontrollably, and it was one of those weird dreams too, where you wake up in exactly the same spot as in your dream.
In the dream I dreamed I was laying on my bed I was reading my bible.

Anyway when I woke up I felt nothing like in the dream.
I thought God was trying to tell He really really didn't want anyone to go to Hell.

Heh, I kind of missed the point there didn't I!

I've had a couple of dreams I can think of that made more sense post Babylon.

[Triton]

Hi Martinez,

Please forgive me if I misundertood your dream.
I read this thread and somehow the last reply is troubling me.
So my reply is in reaction to this troubling and nothing personal.

Did you mean that you felt in your dream that there is a hell
and that God doesn't want anyone to go there, but alas some will go?
Or am I just reading it wrong?

Paul

[Martinez]

Hi Martinez,

Please forgive me if I misundertood your dream.
I read this thread and somehow the last reply is troubling me.
So my reply is in reaction to this troubling and nothing personal.

Did you mean that you felt in your dream that there is a hell
and that God doesn't want anyone to go there, but alas some will go?
Or am I just reading it wrong?

Paul

Hi Triton,

In the dream I didn't have a clue what God meant by it, just that it was to much me to handle.
Now that I look back at it though, it seems like He was giving me a dream for latter, as in now.
No I don't think it was that there was a Hell or wasn't one, just that He wasn't willing that any should perish.

At the time I think I was going through very tough times thinking that I was going to Hell, but now I know that was just the way He led me to the truth of His gospel.

I don't even know if that dream was from the Lord, but it did seem very real.

P.s. I'm the last one who would ever burst into tears and start sobbing.

[Triton]

Thank you for the reply Martinez.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Thank you phazel for sharing that!

It is a blessing to be enabled to put our belief in the Word of God, into convicting words of wisdom. Quote: How will our will cause God's Will to fail? Beautiful!

Peace to you brother

Arcturus

[musicman]

God not willing for anyone to perish, huh?

But I thought that the many will perish before being saved.  Don't we all perish in some way at some time?  This scripture had me perplexed.  Ray even said that Christ came to save those that perish.

But God does not will for anybody to perish.  God does not will for anybody to commit evil acts.  God wills happiness for all.  But first, we must be weak and yes, evil.  I just remembered that purpose and will are two separate things.  God's will is the final outcome for all humanity.

[phazel]

God not willing for anyone to perish, huh?

But I thought that the many will perish before being saved.  Don't we all perish in some way at some time?  This scripture had me perplexed.  Ray even said that Christ came to save those that perish.

But God does not will for anybody to perish.  God does not will for anybody to commit evil acts.  God wills happiness for all.  But first, we must be weak and yes, evil.  I just remembered that purpose and will are two separate things.  God's will is the final outcome for all humanity.

I think that verse could mean something entirely different if not for the second part.   "all come to repentance"

In one sense a hell believer could say  "Well we do not perish, some will be alive in hell".

But, if we are to all come to repentance that contradicts hell in every way.  Any take on hell is obliterated.

[rjsurfs]

Hi Phazel,

I like your thinking and believe you are on to it here.  In our home we just studied this yesterday from LoF part XIV:


A word study will clearly show anyone that Jesus came to SAVE those who are and will be destroyed. And do I have a Scripture on that? I am glad that you asked. Here is a beautiful lesson that will show us just how important it sometimes is to know from what original word a word in our English translations came.

Here is the temporary fate of most humanity:

    "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat" (Matt. 7:13).

Did Jesus come to SAVE all those who enter the broad gate to "destruction?" YES HE DID:

    "For the Son of man is come to SAVE that which was LOST" (Matt. 18:11)!

There it is!

There is what? Where does that verse say that Jesus came to "SAVE that which was DESTROYED?" Why right in the verse, of course. You see, the New Testament was written in GREEK, and in Greek, here is what Matt. 18:11 says: "For the Son of man is come to SAVE that which was apollumi." And just what does apollumi mean in English? Strong's Greek Dictionary of the New Testament: "#622 {92x} apollumi to destroy, to perish, or lose" (page 37). Ninety-two times in the New Testament we read of "destroy, destruction, destroyed/perish, perishing, perished/lose and lost, and they are all translated from the same one word, apollumi! So whether one is destroyed, perished, or lost, it matters not to Jesus—HE SAVES THEM ALL!

Old Testament too:

    "O Israel, you have DESTROYED yourself; but in Me is your help... I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death..." (Hosea 13:7 & 14)!

    "The righteous PERISH, and no man lays it to heart..." (Isa. 57:1)

And concerning lost Israel God says,

    "I will seek that which was LOST, and bring again that which was driven away..." (Ezek. 34:16).

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound

That saved a wretch like me!

I once was lost [apollumi—lost, perished, destroyed], but now am found;

Was blind, but now I see.

The further I get with my studies I see that destruction, perishing, apollumi, is good and beneficial to me... throughout scripture.  It is being "deceived" that is actually harmful to us.

Bobby

[David]

I've had a couple of people ask me similar questions since I left the Church I was in about 9 months ago. Whenever the question of free will comes up, I just give them Ephesians 1 from verse 4 through to 11. For me there is no more profound scripture in the Bible that completely destroys any notion of our free will than these verses.

4According as HE hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

I just asked them to show me where in these scriptures we either did anything, or are going to do anything of ourselves, of our own free will? The truth is its all of God, through Christ in us. I was suprised then that they either didn't believe these scriptures, or tried to argue them away. I'm now seeing that what Ray says is the truth, they despise Gods word and have no time or use for it.

[Deborah-Leigh]

A precious find David! Thanks for sharing.

Peace to you

Arcturus