> General Discussions
Which is worse?
Samson:
Hello everyone,
This is a very good thread, I grew up in a World of sarcasm and have read most of Rays' E-mails and believe he employs phrases like " BRILLIANT " where needed and with good timing. I've noticed a fair amount of E-mails to him where the person is affected with the idea that " We might as well sin if everyone is going to eventually be saved." That reminds me of a story many years ago where in a city in Canada, all the power went out and people that would normally refain from stealing, were now doing so, because now they had an opportunity to do so and not get caught, apparently the act of stealing was'nt repulsive to them in their heart in order to curtail them from doing so when the opportunity presented itself. I noticed with most of the E-mails he receives that are of a negative nature, they usually don't read all the material, actually very little of it and then they proceed to respond as to how wrong he is on a particular subject. Now I realize, all of us, including myself have done so with literature we've examined, however in my case, I don't reply with a dogmatic, " I'm right and Your wrong resonse", usually won't reply at all, unless I fully examine the material presented, it doesn't make sense to reply to these important matters, unless we fully examine the other persons' material.
You guys might be interested in checking out the newest E-mail to Ray, if you haven't done so, entitled SATIRE, that one was pretty good. Someday this guy name Sean will believe, that God is going to fulfill ALL HIS DESIRE'S 1Tim. 4:9,10, 2Peter. 3:9, 1Cor. 15:22-28, 1Tim. 2:3, Acts. 3:21. Then he gets those E-mails where the person tends to be self-righteous and presents themselves as part of an ELITE GROUP THATS' SPECIAL and everyone else is Eternally condemned, Ray comments by saying something to the affect that they think their special meriting Salvation, doing it all on their own, and the hell(no pun intended) with everyone else getting Salvation.
One of the most difficult things for me at first was accepting that the Devil and his Demons would eventually receive Salvation. Most Sites that preach Universalism, that I viewed in the past, are whats' commonly termed Partial-Universalists, they believe everyone is going to be eventually saved, except Satan, the Demons and those that blaspheme the Holy spirit. So in affect, they still limit Our God. Rays' response to someones comment about the Devil and his Demons not being saved was " they need Salvation Too", that really hit my Heart in a positive way.
I perceive Rays' sarcastic style as sorta being the Rodney Dangerfield of Bible Truths(in a positive way). Just some of my thoughts this morning.
Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
P.S. Rays Responses to E-mails are probably my favorite reading at this Site.
Sorin:
Hi Samson,
That was a well thought out post, and I agree.
Also, this guy named Sean said: "What is Jesus saving us from? Why should we follow anything it says if we will all learn of salvation on judgment? We would be able to live however we wanted and still be saved."
Why do Christians automatically assume that if there's no hell, there's no punishment? As if punishment has to be eternal?
As for living however you want now, there's no hell anyways, so might as well- that's like saying, I'll just rape this little girl now, and I
won't have to pay for it until later on when I get caught....could be 10-20yrs down the road-but hey, I'll have my fun now.
That's like asking, why should I follow the law of the land, the punishment isn't eternal-so why should I obey it?
See how silly these questions are-yet every Christian has said that to me, who I told there is no hell.
Oh well, one day they too will learn righteousness.
Take care,
Sorin
Samson:
Hello Sorin,
I concur, they tend to assume they won't receive any punishment, thats' precisely what I meant by stating that alot of these E-mailers to Ray don't read the entire story or article. They ASSUME(making an a@@ out of you & me). When I briefly heard about Eternal Salvation years ago, I thought it was too good to be true to even pursue the matter further, but I didn't ridicule it, God apparently wasn't ready for me to embrace these wonderfull Truths. Almost everyone that I've personally spoken with about Eternal Salvation tend to think, " You can do anything you want and still receive Salvation", I like Rays point about the Apostle Paul being " the worst of sinners", hence my Scriptural reference at the bottom of my Posts. People need God to remove the scales from their eyes, first, they don't seem to read these plain Scriptures and read them at their face value. I don't know any other way someone might interpret " Worst ", and theirs' no evidence prior to Pauls' conversion, that he was going to change his disposition, until his experience with Christ on the Road to Damascus, as Ray said, it took less than 30 seconds for Paul to drastically change his entire direction. I remember years ago a fellow JW when confronted with that passage and Pauls quick conversion, He said " God made an exception in his case, by making him change ", my response to that now would be poppycock. When discussing with my Wife about people eventually changing, I tell her, they might not change in this lifetime, but don't worry they will eventually, I said don't worry, God isn't going to allow anyone to remain wicked, they will learn righteousness, one way or another. I can use myself as an example and my wife knows it, God is teaching me to learn how to get along with women, hence a few past Marriages, hopefully for my sake, I'll get the message this time or alot more suffering is headed my way(Hebews. chapter 12). Just a side note, my wedding Anniversary is in April, I told my wife that I would look at our Marriage certificate prior to the actual date, to make sure I don't mess it up, She said, may God help you, if you do forget April 17th(Ha Ha)
Enjoyed your comments and perspective Sorin, lets' keep the Spiritual Ball rolling, its' very stimulating and my Wife is glad I'm on the computer discussing these Truths, she says it keeps me calm and out of her hair, in reality she's a Great Woman, with a good street knowledge of how to deal with men, she has too, in order to put up with me.
Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
hillsbororiver:
Hello Sorin, Samson and everyone,
You know when I first read the indisputable truth Ray (through the Spirit of Christ) revealed about hell being a "christian hoax" especially the plethora of scriptures that were used to formulate his articles I was blown away and filled with an indescribable joy.
This joy did not stem from "now I can get away with murder" emotions or what other things I could possibly get away with, no it was more like now my worries about my sister, brother, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and good friends that passed away without being "saved" did have hope, even while sleeping in the grave. This increased my love and even respect for God tenfold, maybe a thousand fold.
Although I am still a sinner I have begun to hate these sins not hold them dearer to my heart, although I fail I do not just shrug my shoulders and justify my failures, the bitterness and anxiety by the bouts of faithlessness and lack of patience, temperence, etc. is motivation to seek His forgiveness and strength in overcoming these carnal, beastly thoughts and actions.
Jesus said;
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
The Apostle John goes on to say;
1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
Kat:
Good discussion going here. If I might add a bit.
You know when a person steeped in the teachings of the church hear one of these Truths, it doesn't make any sense to them. Think about how they have all their understand put together in their minds and then comes along this whole new and different idea. It just doesn't fit in with anything they understand.
When we had our eyes opened and we started learning these Truths, we also had to start unlearning false doctrines. So for them to try to make this Truth fit, would mean they will have to start tearing down their other beliefs that they have too. When we are joined with the church and believe their teachings, we build a whole plethora of interconnecting false ideas in our minds. If you try to remove one then the rest don't fit right, so they are just trying to hang on to that false security they have with all these false beliefs.
Until God gives you the understand that we are the beast and that it must die, we can not get it. They just are not able to do that no more than we were when we were in the church. So it's easier for them to just deny this Truth and hang on to all their false beliefs.
Right now they are deceived, but when Christ comes to the earth He will teach this Truth in power and authority and there won't be any Preachers preaching aganist it. Finally this Truth will go to all the nations and the people WILL learn righteousness.
Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version