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something interesting
Mickyd:
alucard....you make some very good points.
What I meant about the book of Hebrews is that even I don't think it was written by Paul....the style is more in line with the book of John in my opinion. Of coarse there is no proof that John wrote the book of John, and that's the point all together. There really is no possible way of knowing.
Lets just say for the moment that the book of Romans "Is" authentic and written by Paul. Now....compairing 1st & 2nd Corinthians and 1st & 2nd Timothy to the book of Romans...they do vary in tone even from one letter to the other but the mood of the writter could have an impact on the style, as could any number of factors. But, I would have to say...again, in my opinion, that these books are defenately written by Paul. I've probably spent more time in these 5 books than any others in the New Testament and I feel very comfortable with that statement.
It all boils down to this.....all we have to go on is what's in front of us. Has the Bible been tampered with? Of coarse it has...I don't think you would get much of an arguement on that. There are many unanswered questions and we'll probably only get an answer when we die. There is just as much controvercy over the Hebrew scriptures as well. You just never hear as much about it. Heck.....there's no historical proof that the Hebrews were ever slaves in Egypt, but again....you won't hear much about that. But, when it comes to the New Testament, everybody has an opinion.
Like I said, all we have to go on is what's in front of us. We can sit here and question it all day long or we can study the word for ourselves and let the Holy Spirit lead us.
alucard:
--- Quote from: Mickyd ---alucard....you make some very good points.
What I meant about the book of Hebrews is that even I don't think it was written by Paul....the style is more in line with the book of John in my opinion. Of coarse there is no proof that John wrote the book of John, and that's the point all together. There really is no possible way of knowing.
Lets just say for the moment that the book of Romans "Is" authentic and written by Paul. Now....compairing 1st & 2nd Corinthians and 1st & 2nd Timothy to the book of Romans...they do vary in tone even from one letter to the other but the mood of the writter could have an impact on the style, as could any number of factors. But, I would have to say...again, in my opinion, that these books are defenately written by Paul. I've probably spent more time in these 5 books than any others in the New Testament and I feel very comfortable with that statement.
It all boils down to this.....all we have to go on is what's in front of us. Has the Bible been tampered with? Of coarse it has...I don't think you would get much of an arguement on that. There are many unanswered questions and we'll probably only get an answer when we die. There is just as much controvercy over the Hebrew scriptures as well. You just never hear as much about it. Heck.....there's no historical proof that the Hebrews were ever slaves in Egypt, but again....you won't hear much about that. But, when it comes to the New Testament, everybody has an opinion.
Like I said, all we have to go on is what's in front of us. We can sit here and question it all day long or we can study the word for ourselves and let the Holy Spirit lead us.
--- End quote ---
yes i'm aware of all these things and you have your opinions and i have mine and that's all that they are opinions,but on a side note it's not just the way their written but where they were written.this mianly applies to both timothy's&titus but if you read the article you'll see it's possible but didn't seem likely to the route he probly traveled plus as you see if they were written by him their very late but if forged their very early.
Also nightmare sasuke i don't have an AIM and if your asking about corinthians 14:34-35 all that i've seen on it it's about evenly divided between people that think it was in the orginal or wasn't we probly won't know,but i will say this about it if it's original it sure went threw many strange stages.in some bibles it's after verse 9,then were it is in are bible after verse 33,and in older ones it comes after verse 40.it seems there really isn't any bible that seemed to omits it but it sure moved around a lot.
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: alucard ---
--- Quote from: nightmare sasuke ---John 7:53 and John 8:11 is not Scripture? Never knew that. Do you have any information on it? Where'd it come from?
--- End quote ---
you should be able to look any were on the internet and find information about it,you see aparently scribes in the later churches added it to give some more meaningfull stories to the gospel but it's unscriptual.
[
--- End quote ---
What makes a passage scriptural? Does it qualify if it is part of the dead sea scrolls? If it is part of the bible is it automatically scriptural [translation errors notwithstanding]? Who decided that Paul's writings should be included in a bible anyway? If you remove all of Paul's writings, does is significantly change the message of the new testament?
The bible is a compilation work. It has many inconsistencies in it. Yet we are told that if we can find two or more like passages then it must likely be true and inspired.
Most all of the new testament "writers" have their knowledge basis the the old testament. The apostles were jews first familiar with the old testament scriptures and originally followed the precepts of judaism. Why wouldn't a lot of the new testament read similar to the old testament?
Bobby makes a good point of finding truth by following the spirit of God. What makes you think that the scholars of babylon don't feel the same way? Maybe it is a case of not seeing the forest through the trees.
Is the bible the only way to find that truth?
To me the bible is only one source of inspiration. It is only a tool and not the be all and end all. It was written by men. Even inpired men have a carnal mind at best.
The old testament was put together as a book of stories and rules to bind the people of Israel just as the bible was commissioned by the pagan Constantine. It was essentially assembled by one man and agreed upon by a political group of bishops with minor changes. The reason for assembling the bible was essentially political.
There will never ever be an end to what humans say should or should not be included in the bible. If you believe in Christ, then what is quoted as His words [if you believe the quotes are accurate] are far more important than what anyone else wrote that is included in the bible.
If you think about it, the bible as it was translated is the primary basis for the false doctrines of babylon.
In order for you to be saved does it matter what you believe concerning:
-tithing
-virginity of mary
-trinity
-free will
-eternal punishment
If you answer yes to any of these then I challege you to rethink your belief in the doctrine of Christ. Ray has made it very clear that what doctrines most of us has been taught is not truth. He has helped many to challenge the status quo and think for themselves.
Don't get too caught up in the jumble of words lest you miss the message.
feat
orion77:
Bobby and Harryfeat, I totally agree. Whe the Holy Spirit shall come, He shall teach you of all things.
Jn 4:23
But coming is the hour, and now is, when the true worshipers will be worshiping the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also is seeking such to be worshiping Him.
Jn 4:24
God is spirit, and those who are worshiping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth."
Jn 14:17
the spirit of truth, which the world can not get, for it is not beholding it, neither is knowing it. Yet you know it, for it is remaining with you and will be in you.
Jn 14:26
Now the consoler, the holy spirit, which the Father will be sending in My name, that will be teaching you all, and reminding you of all that I said to you.
Jn 15:26
"Now, whenever the consoler which I shall be sending you from the Father may be coming, the spirit of truth which is going out from the Father, that will be testifying concerning Me.
Jn 16:13
Yet whenever that may be coming--the spirit of truth--it will be guiding you into all the truth, for it will not be speaking from itself, but whatsoever it should be hearing will it be speaking, and of what is coming will it be informing you.
I think a good balance between the word, Spirit and lifes experiences can lead to deeper truths. It's when we put too much in one or the other that can cause confusion.
God bless,
Gary
hillsbororiver:
We are all going to be eventually saved, that is not the issue. We are striving for the higher calling;
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Remember the Word contained in scripture was not intended for all to understand;
Mat 13:13 Therefore, speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
There is so much to learn, appreciate and understand in the books contained within our bibles, one of the things I have learned is to read it as God speaking to me directly, one on one, His Spirit growing in me, not looking for "signs and wonders" of outside worldly events.
Is our knowledge of this book so complete that we need to look elsewhere for meat? I agree that we can see the Lord's handwriting in things other than the bible, that nature itself is a parable, our interactions with others, believers and non-believers are edifying us if we view things spiritually. But to confuse our minds (spiritually) with the likes of Judas books is something we are admonished against. Do you think that the following verses apply only to the translators of the bible, or preachers in the pulpit?
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Mat 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mat 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
We all should be very careful of what we post, keeping in mind that there are only about 30 frequent posters (at any given time), hundreds that read and rarely post and thousands who visit here directly after just discovering Ray's articles, let us not confuse them with supposition and links to unscriptural writings.
Joe
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