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A Question
Samson:
Hello Dave,
Very Good comments and experience, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Yes, some of these reasonings they present, can and will make you sick, if not Spiritually, maybe Physically. I used to believe that Adam and Eve were created perfect, with the total " WILL " to resist sin, until Ray pointed out that Eve had the desire in her heart to partake of the forbidden fruit, prior to her touching and eating it. Its' amazing the things that go unnoticed when reading the Scriptures, God created Eve to be Spiritually immature, just the way he wanted her to be. The Greek Word Teleiotes translated Perfection is a relative term--" means to bring to completion or full measure. Perfection as it relates to God is in the absolute sense, but to all others, its' relative. They(Adam & Eve) were perfect in the sense that, they were created to be exactly what God wanted them to be, many people I've spoken to throughtout the years, think of perfection as being equivalent to flawless in all areas.
That Pastor that considers Mankind to be Satans' creation, gives him too much credit. He would do well to read the Acount in Job, Satan can't do anything unless God wants him to do it.
Insofar as Eternal Torment goes, I personally never believed it, my former religious affiliation taught Annihilation for the wicked and unsaved. Not as bad, a more merciful outcome, but bad enough. Their seems to be a trend in Christendom to believe in Eternal Separation instead of Eternal Torture, although still officially part of their creed(Eternal Torment), aside from the vindictive zealots, the average person doesn't know what to believe, at least thats' been my experience, of course I don't live in the Southern Bible belts and I don't know of or have known of those with a Baptist or Assembly of God backround in my area. Never spent too much time listening to tele-evangelists, the few times that I did, I felt compelled to reach for the device that says, ON,OFF or the STATION SELECTOR.
Well, I just want to express my thanks for your Post and my interest and enjoyment of it.
Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
Kat:
Hi David,
--- Quote from: David on February 25, 2008, 06:24:53 AM ---Very recently something quite profound happened to me, and I would be very interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience. I very good friend of mine, a brother in Christ has an elder brother in ministry. He is the pastor of a Baptist Church in Preston in Lancishire. My friend gave me a link to his Church and asked me if I would listen to some of the audios. I clicked the first one. The first five minutes was one of the congregation reading from Numbers, then the Pastor started to preach. Not even five minutes in I had to turn it off. I actually felt physically sick, to the point where I could feel the bile rising in my mouth, that's the effect of hearing his blasphemy had on me.
--- End quote ---
Well I have not become physically sick, but....... a couple of times I've turned on the TV to watch a televangelists to see if I could discern the heresy. Well each time I became so repulsed by their sermon, that I turned it off after just a few mins.
Ray ask me to do a transcript on a speach from someone that he wanted to refute. Well of course I did it, but it was grueling go over and over that speach to transcribe it. I had to just turn off my mind from listening to it and just do the words, sort of.
But I love transcribing Ray's audios, becasue I do have to listen to them over and over. I know by the time I'm done I will have learned a great deal :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
phazel:
--- Quote from: David on February 25, 2008, 06:24:53 AM ---The first five minutes was one of the congregation reading from Numbers, then the Pastor started to preach. Not even five minutes in I had to turn it off. I actually felt physically sick, to the point where I could feel the bile rising in my mouth, that's the effect of hearing his blasphemy had on me.
--- End quote ---
When I chose to leave the church I gave notice to the church leaders. While I had just as soon walked out, I really believe I did the right thing in staying for a time to allow others to learn what I knew so they could take over my duties. Funny thing is I felt like I was giving notice to a workplace. LOL
Anyway, during that time I still participated in a group for the ministry team I was involved in and as we were being shown a DVD series on worship, I just always had this nagging sick feeling while watching. It was a series by Robert Morris.
What really hit me badly was the last segment we watched before I left, Robert Morris was talking about the Man with the unclean spirits in Mark chapter 5. Not everything he said was wrong, but the most important aspects that he focues on were totally totally unscriptural.
He said that the man with the unclean spirits had the power of his own will to run to Jesus and worship him
I about lost it, in fact I realize that we are not to cast our pearls before swine, but I sent an e-mail to the leadership of the church scripturally proving that what he said was utter nonsense and that I could no longer stand to watch that crap during my time left in the church.
One guy tried to point out that Robert was right and I asked for scripture, not his opinion on how he felt about it, and I got no reply.
Another interesting thing to all of this is that I got an e-mail and was told that the whole prayer team was praying that I get freedom from lies. I replied and told them YOUR PRAYERS ARE ANSWERED I AM GETTING FREEDOM FROM LIES THAT IS WHY GOD HAS TOLD ME TO LEAVE THE CHURCH, THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU.
I got no reply from that either.
Samson:
Hello Everyone,
I really enjoyed that Phazel about the " Prayer Team ", thats' one prayer team a person can live without, as the saying goes, " With friends like that, who needs Enemies. " One of the positive things about having been a JW, when you voluntarily leave, by writing them a resignation letter, you don't have to worry about them praying for you, speaking to you, especially if they consider you an Apostate like me, no communication whatsoever, just a side benefit for me, actually in all seriousness, I preferred that outcome over being nagged and pursued, at that point they wouldn't have convinced me otherwise, about leaving. Although, perhaps some of those that prayed for you, did so in all sincerity, however, most people don't like it when you break with the Status Quo, thats' true in all area's of life, sorta like their little club, they could say the same about us at Bible Truths, the exception being that we have ample Scriptural Support for our beliefs, all of us LOVE TRUTH above all else and look forward to others embracing this TRUTH, sometimes the worst critics and opposers eventually become one of us, thats' an inspiring thought. Anyway, I enjoyed your comments and look forward to many more.
Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
Phil3:10:
It took me about two years to leave the Baptist Church I was in. After spending more than a year involved in writing a church constitution and bylaws it became very apparent to me that something was not right. I did not experience real worship and even though I felt a real love for the people and pastor I felt that most was of man and little was of GOD. Fellowship was good but a real spiritual connection was never there. The final nail in the coffin came when the church started the Purpose Driven Life program. It has been hard and it has hurt my wife and my relationship considerably. I really planned to go back after this man driven program was over but just could no make myself return. I spent each Sunday reading in BT and GOD dragged me out of this man made church system. Things have gotten much better over time and I would not go back to the church system for anything. I praise GOD all the time for the enlightenment HE brought into my life.
Phil3:10
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