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If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
dogcombat:
Reading the most recent posts in the "Emails to Ray". I've had to just shake my head in partial sadness (because many of the detractors are Spiritually Blind as a bat), but mostly in disgust. The latest "Tithing" email from Tyler shows just how some people WILL NOT R-E-A-D.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6531.0.html
I know that unless God has humbled you and led you to Ray's site, you won't get it anyway. However, that doesn't mean that his detractors couldn't at least take time to READ all of a paper that Ray has posted on this site. In doing so, they may understand an admonition that Ray has often mentioned on the audios of the Bible Conferences that one has "to CAREFULLY study ALL of the words".
More and more of us have been taking a second third or fourth read of the papers and seeing what God had hidden the first time. And that's encouraging. Because Ray's detractors "Know not what they do". And when I say detractor, I don't just mean those who write venomous hate mail to Ray, but those who pick stuff "out of the context" that Ray has written in order to nitpick issues with him.
So, I guess the point I'm getting at is that by READING CAREFULLY or perhaps RE-READING CAREFULLY the papers on the bible truths site, we see ourselves how blind we are and the beast within each of us that we must die to daily. Though apart from God's Holy Spirit, we can do or learn NOTHING.
Ches
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Ches
This comes to mind John 9 : 41 Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would have no sin, but because you now claim to have sight, your sin remains.
They think they see and their sin remains. It is so humbling to consider the extent of their chastisement that is being stored up for them. Some more than others. Ouch when they finally see their folly and comprehend their idolatry and deep seated hate for God! Woe will be to them when their motives are revealed for them to see and acknowledge. Then only they will repent as we are doing in seeing the beast is us and Christ is Sovereign God.
Peace to you brother
Arcturus :)
hillsbororiver:
Another perfect example of your point Ches;
Tithing
« on: Today at 09:17:43 AM
Mr. L. Ray;
I read about your tithing commentary.
Please forgive me but i would disagree with you
on the basis of this verse:
Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and active."
If we will not count the Old Testament as living and active then we consider it the contrary - dead and inactive - which in turn contradicts to this verse, thus contradict God Himself who is the Living One.
Abraham and Jacob, before the law of tithing was given, they already give it voluntarily as a tithe. Whether it is a law or not, tithing is still relevant, living and active. And tithing in the first place is tithing itself. Now if God tells us to do so, we should obey. It is not the giving and the amount we give that really matters most but the OBEDIENCE of His command. Every word that comes from the mouth of God is a law in itself. Thus, if God said that we should give our tithe then we should do so. And this we should tell to our broth ers and sisters in the Church.
May the Lord Christ and God JESUS bless you with His peace!
Dear Becca: Well, if you believe you should obey God, then why don't you? Did God every command anyone to tithe MONEY? No He didn't. Only farmers and herdsmen tithed. Nothing else was ever titheable in Israel. Fishermen did not tithe; basket makers did not tithe; gold miners did not tithe; the hired hands who worked in the fields and were paid a wage IN MONEY, did not tithe.
Abraham did NOT tithe anything of his own, not even his farm products or herds, NEVER!
And Jacob told God plainly that the ONLY way that he would give a tenth BACK to God is if God first gave him a HUNDRED PERCENT of all his wealth. Jacob said in effect--Make me filthy rich and I will give you back a tenth. So much for the modern Church and their damnable tithing doctrine.
No one ever was taught to tithe to Christ's church. All gave freely if they had it to give, and if they didn't, they gave nothing. There was NO obligatory TEN PERCENT law of tithing. Paul never taught tithing or took tithes from the Gentile Churches. The New Testament Church of Jesus Christ never practiced "tithing" until the Catholic Church made it a law in the 5 th century!
God be with you,
Ray
Is it possible that Becca actually read the articles on tithing in their entirety?
Peace,
Joe
phazel:
I have found that there are two types of people who will argue for tithing being a new covenant law.
1. Church leaders who get paid.
2. People who are financially prosperous and believe it is from giving their 10%
The 2nd group fall into what I call the positive side of the LAW of AVERAGES. You could do a private study of any group of individuals and you would find that in any group who faithfully tithed that some would gain financially some would remain static and some would decline in financial status.
Biblically, that study would be a contradiction to the concept often heard in churches. They will tell you that the scriptures tell us that we can test God on the matter of tithing. They will imply that it has nothing to do with the heart and that this is just how God works, you tithe you will prosper.
This is what they will say at the MOMENT of trying to get you to put money in the plate , bucket, what have you.
When you are not financially increased this is when they will cite all the qualifiers. "Well, God doesn't promise that he will bless you right away" "God doesn;t always bless us with money" Yada yada yada.
Find me one church that has anyone who has financially decreased after giving their tithe doing the offering time telling everyone how blessed they are to give their tithe and you will have witnessed a miracle. :)
It might have happened, if someone here has witnessed such a thing I think it would be an interesting story to find out about that churches doctrine.
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: phazel on February 23, 2008, 09:43:45 AM ---
The 2nd group fall into what I call the positive side of the LAW of AVERAGES. You could do a private study of any group of individuals and you would find that in any group who faithfully tithed that some would gain financially some would remain static and some would decline in financial status.
--- End quote ---
Great point phazel,
Income confusion
By Thomas Sowell
Anyone who follows the media has probably heard many times that the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and incomes of the population in general are stagnating. Moreover, those who say such things can produce many statistics, including data from the Census Bureau, which seem to indicate that.
On the other hand, income tax data recently released by the Internal Revenue Service seem to show the exact opposite: People in the bottom fifth of income-tax filers in 1996 had their incomes increase by 91 percent by 2005.
You can read it all here;
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell112007.php3
The law of average indeed does flow in favor of the tithing churches, of course as people age and gain experience they become more valuable to employers thus a gain in net income!
Peace,
Joe
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