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[Sorin]

Very well said Arcturus!  I mean it, that was the best thing I had read all day. Truth is beautiful to read.

Take care,
Sorin

[Deborah-Leigh]

It is a gift from Christ The Truth and privilege and joy to write, contemplate and acknowledge. Thank you Sorin!

Peace to you brother

Arcturus

[Phil3:10]

Arcturus,
How well said and this is all GOD'S plan. I just don't think those within the church system can understand and this is good. God in HIS time frame and in way will drag them out. I praise HIM daily that HE has called me out and for those like yourself and Ray who continue to teach me truths of GOD.
In HIM,
Phil3:10

[Deborah-Leigh]

Thank you Phil 3 : 10

I too feel so grateful that I too have a teacher, messenger and also see a beloved Apostle of Christ, in Ray Smith. The Word of God and Spirit of Christ SHINES through the messages of Christ to each and every one of us reading the Truths here in BT. Some get to hear HIM directly and others in a whisper passed along to our loved ones.

Peace to you brother

Arcturus

[Matt]

All,
 Maybe what Dewey is trying to say is that he understands what and who Babylon are, but sometimes it is difficult to hear the constant sarcasm (no need for a lesson on sarcasm) that can come from some of the threads. 

I know we are all sincere and do not wish to offend others, the truth is the truth and that will never change.
Maybe I am wrong, but he, just as many of us here, still have loved ones in Babylon. 
Emoticons can only communicate so far , especially when many of us have never met in person. 
I do not like to always be reminded of how deceived and “wretched, pitiable, poor, blind and naked” my wife and kids are, not to say that it is not true, but sometimes it becomes a form of “namecalling”.  Sometimes we can get so angry at the system in our posts that it can easily send offense off to others.  The trick is not falling for the offense.  Personally, I love everyone here, and if gets a bit to thick, I just take a break (I understand that it is not personal).
 We must make an honest and sincere attempt to reconcile with an offended brother. If he is truly is a brother, he will forgive quickly and go on with life without a grudge.

 
Matt
A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city, And contentions are like the bars of a citadel

[dewey]

Good job matt on a very inteligent  post .
  dewey

[Martinez]

Read the the NT, I don't think that Jesus was ever once worried or even cared about offending anyone!

[hillsbororiver]

The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different, and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon. Almost to compare them to dirt ,

Hi Dewey,

I can't say that I read anyone saying that they were better than anybody, or that others were "not as good or holy" as themselves, if this was stated maybe you could direct me to the offending posts. 

Perhaps there would be more favorable responses to your thoughts and feelings if you did not put words in peoples mouths and then proceed to refute the things that you implied they said. Is this not bearing false witness? Comparing people to dirt were your words Dewey, no one elses.

It was only a little more than a week ago you did the same thing to me, in another thread you made this statement along with what I thought was a sincere request;

Hey folks,there is a bright side if it gives you comfort, however it does not me,I dont say that because I  have money .I dont have a pot to ---.I say that because I  love Gods creation,all of it .Check it out MT19;24] read it all the way through. Well of course its a parable,but than show me one scripture that means what it says. But  have proof ,or dont bother.In Jesus name love to all.
     dewey

I responded;

 

Check it out MT19;24] read it all the way through. Well of course its a parable,but than show me one scripture that means what it says.

Mat 19:24  And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Hi Dewey,

Mar 4:13  And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

It means what all parables teach; "many called, few chosen."
 
But what is meant by rich? Is it the complacent, the ones who believe they are already "saved?" They said the twenty second prayer as they made the alter call and now are complete in the Lord, no need for anything other than looking out there somewhere for "the beast" and "the antichrist."

I believe the following verses help to "flesh out" Matthew 19:24

Rev 3:15  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
 
Rev 3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.
 
Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

His Peace to you,

Joe
 

Did I direct any negative thought or word toward you? This was your response to me;

Hey my brothers and sisters ,I have just read all the replies to Sorins post ,titled this is awful
.I am sad to say the least, of all those post there were very few that spoke of love , or the name of JESUS, please let me show you who they were.
 1. gmik had the most impressive post of all ,she spoke of JESUS and love
  2. pera he spoke of love
  3. randy he spoke of love
  4. dewey he spoke of love and JESUS
   Joe I know what you are saying about me beieng not hot or cold,you say that I am luke warm , that may be the case ,if so I have to believe that is just where JESUS wants  me to be.there fore my faith in JESUS assures me that I can face tomorrow ,either in this life or the next.
  And there is this,maybe this is just dewey.
   I belive that all three of these verses are parables .Rev3;15--Rev3;16---Rev3;17
   I belive they have a physical/ literterial meaning , which is not real hard for us flesh and   blood human beiengs to see and come up with our opinion of what the literial meanings are .
 We have people that say they mean this or that ,maybe , but we will not have proof till that glorious day comes.
      In the name of Jesus Christ I try to love all people . dewey

I asked you about this shortly after you made this accusation and you never directly responded to me, Brother is this what you call love?

Jesus told us;

Joh 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

As well as;

Mat 19:18  He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Dewey, I hold no grudge or animosity toward you but I am asking you as Brothers in Christ to be careful of your own words especially if you are easily offended by the words of others.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
 

[Matt]

Martinez,
I have read the NT, do you think I have not?  Really, what do you really mean by this? 
I guess If my heart was pure and sinless, I too would not care because I know that ALL of my motives and intentions would be from and of God, so no worries there, right

However, as much as I try to be like Jesus, I know I do not always have a pure heart/intention, thus I have a need for my brothers and sisters to not be offended, if it can be helped.  Though I know I do not have freewill, I still feel the need to be responsible for what I say (as MANY here already have done), and how I say it. 
I am not "taking sides" or trying to anger anyone.  As I stated already, the truth is the truth, it will speak for itself, many will be offended by it.  I guess as I mature, I will understand more.

Matt

[Sorin]

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.  For they that are such serve NOT our Lord Jesus Christ, but their OWN belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple”    (Rom 16:17-18)

[dewey]

I told all of my brothers and sisters  that I would post to night on judge not , I put   a couple  hours into this post , when I hit the post sign ,every thing was gone .i will try again tomorrow Lord  willing  .

 love all of you , dewey
please do not give up on me ,All i want to do is call you brother 
   

[Little Joe]

I won't even offer an opinion, I'll just post what's in Scripture:

Colossians 4:6   
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

James 3:

4Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

 5Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

 6And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

 7For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

 8But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

 9Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

 10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

[Little Joe]

Read the the NT, I don't think that Jesus was ever once worried or even cared about offending anyone!

Matthew 17:27
 27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Mark 9:42   

 42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.


John 16:1

 1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

[indianabob]

Hey Dewey, old buddy from WCG.

We have exchanged a few letters and you have asked me to write more often and that is good.   I have been reluctant to respond too quickly because of what I have seen in some of the letters.  Then I would read a letter from another member of the forum and they had already said what I planned to write.  So, I guess I'm just slow in my old age. (smile)  I'm sorry that I haven't taken the time to write more carefully and to avoid judging unfairly, but that requires a lot of effort and some days I'm just too lazy.  So, let me try again with proper love and care.

As you may recall, I used to be in WCG and over the years there were lots of good times and a few bad times.
One of the things we learned was that IF we loved God we would send our tithes to "headquarters' so that the ministry could spend "God's money" where it would do the most good.  (Jet planes and crystal and gold presents for heads of state like the President of Egypt and stuff like that)

We ordinary members were not smart enough to decide where to send tithes or who to help.  The message was that once we wrote the check and put it in the mail, that our obligation was complete. It was then up to God to get the money to the best place to accomplish the work of God on earth at the end time.  Do you recall that message?   It was error.

Then I studied the 24 Bible lessons which were interpreted for me by HWA that taught us that God's government was from the top down.  You remember, God the Father, to Jesus the son, to the Pastor General, to the evangelist and then to the local pastor, to the husband and from me to the wife who was to keep silent in the church.  All sounds pretty good, except that I made the mistake of marrying my wife DORIS, who didn't understand it that way.   Ha ha.  She listened to a few dozen sermons and read the literature that I gave her and tested her on and she discovered that Government from the top down meant, "from God directly to BOTH of us".   That's right, no intercessor priest person other than Jesus Messiah who is our anointed Lord AND our loving ELDER brother.  Well that was the beginning of the end for my authority.  Not my responsibility, just my dictatorial authority.  It took a few more years, but eventually God opened my mind and my heart to see that God was using my wife, this pretty little empty headed girl to teach ME a lesson that I would never forget.  That lesson is;  Listen before you speak.   Listen a lot!

Now, I remember that you wrote to me about the end of 2007 and asked me to write back since you were applying for membership to the forum.  I thought that was a great opportunity for both of us since we had come from similar backgrounds and were both coming out of WCG.  Is that still the case?  Are we both coming out of WCG or out of Babylon which means confusion?  If so, then we both need to listen more than we speak.  Me most of all.

Now I have been studying the Bible Truths web site with my wife for three years and I have learned quite a bit.  However, everyday that I read letters from the "newbies" on the forum and try to formulate a response, I once again realize how ignorant I truly am and how much more I need to study and pray and meditate.

So, because God is showing me my limitations, I am careful to listen and learn about 100 times more than I speak and I am aware that NONE of the member of the forum see themselves as teachers or experts on God's will.  They all, we all, are students and beginners, working together to present ourselves to God in full humility, realizing how much more we need to learn and how much we need one another.

With all the above in mind, may I suggest that we plan to limit our speaking and writing to just sharing our feelings and our limited understanding in brotherly love and leaving the teaching to Ray Smith and the correcting to God through Christ's spirit, who knows our hearts better than anyone of us ever could.

Thank you for your attention and please write when time permits.

Warm regards, Bob

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Bob,

The only thing I can add to your post is a resounding AMEN!

His Peace to all,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

I won't even offer an opinion, I'll just post what's in Scripture:

Colossians 4:6   
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

James 3:

4Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

 5Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

 6And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

 7For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

 8But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

 9Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

 10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Perfect witnesses Joe, thank you!

His Peace to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

I told all of my brothers and sisters  that I would post to night on judge not , I put   a couple  hours into this post , when I hit the post sign ,every thing was gone .i will try again tomorrow Lord  willing  .

 love all of you , dewey
please do not give up on me ,All i want to do is call you brother 
   

Hi Dewey,

No one is giving up on you Brother, especially the One who really matters.

Joh 6:39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Samson]

Great Post Indiana Bob,

                                 I share the same previous experience with Randy(both Ex-JW's), we share alot of private messages and some phone converstions. As a JW, I had that experience of Theocractic Government from the Top Down, glad those days are over with. Anyway, I see alot of Love at this Forum, certainly more than what I experienced as a JW. I leave everyone with this Scripture, " Above all things, have intense Love for one another, because Love covers a multitude of sins." 1Peter. 4:8.

                       Thanks for your comments, Joe(Hillsbororiver) and Little Joe and Thankyou Dewey for your comments, as well. This entire thread certainly is filled with much PASSION, for truth, that is, I think its' time for me to retire from this Subject, although its' been very interesting and stimulating, I'm worn out, must be my emotional age, 150 years old( remember I mentioned to you, Joe, about being emotionally old in a previous topic, Ha Ha, it happened again, just kidding everybody, just getting over the intestinal Flu)                       
                                          Your Brother in Christ, Samson.

[Little Joe]

I'm learning the best way not to "offend these little ones" is to
keep me mouth shut


So, I'm with Samson,  I said all I'm gonna say, and I ain't gonna say no more!

[Sorin]

Read the the NT, I don't think that Jesus was ever once worried or even cared about offending anyone!

Matthew 17:27
 27Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Mark 9:42   

 42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.


John 16:1

 1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

From Matthew 10:

35For I have come to turn
   " 'a man against his father,
      a daughter against her mother,
   a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
    36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.

 37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.


So Jesus in His own words, came to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law-but is concerned about offending some temple tax collector?

Mark 9:42 is talking about who shall offend one of these little ones. Who do you think 'these little ones' are? The hell-mongering Babylonians who do a disservice to His name everytime they open they're mouth about how God will fail to save all humanity, even though he desires it? Or, are these little ones, those who are called out of the Whore?


And this is what I get out of John 16

 1"All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. 2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you. I did not tell you this at first because I was with you.

It doesn't even say offended-but even if it did, it's talking about being offended of Him. Not offended of Babylonians.