> Off Topic Discussions
judge not
Little Joe:
--- Quote from: Martinez on February 23, 2008, 08:41:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: dewey on February 23, 2008, 05:50:28 PM ---As I read all the posts that have been posted lately, most of them seem to have been directed toward the churches around the world .The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different, and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon. Almost to compare them to dirt , if you think that I am wrong go back and read some of your earlier posts.
How soon we forget, just what it was that Jesus said when he spoke to his followers . [MT7:3 thru 5] And just what was it that Jesus said about judging? He came to judge no one, but if he was to judge it would be just. With that I say stop judging the people of the world, lest ye be judged .
Just because some of us have the knowledge to speak above the understanding of most people does not mean that we should post with the words that only a scholar would use. May I suggest that you people that do ask yourself are there people out there that won't understand what I am saying ? It is like speaking in tongues, if no one understands then why do it ?
In the name of Jesus Christ, Paula and I try to love all people
Dewey .
--- End quote ---
Hey there Dewey.
All I have to say about this particular subject is this, go and read Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and see what Jesus had to say to those who believed differently than He did.
To those who were humble and seeking the truth He was gracious and loving, but to those who would pervert the truth and had no intrest in seeking the truth He was fiery and indignant and rightfully so.
If it was merely a matter believing something different that would be fine, but they believe differently because they have no intrest in the truth, they have no interest in everyone being brought into God's family, they would be perfectly happy with billions screaming their guts out in indescribable pain just so they can have there pie in the sky, it's the way of the flesh!
Go and have a look at some of the countries where millions go hungry because their government is corrupt, is this not the exact same scenario being played as we speak?
--- End quote ---
I don't have any problem with using harsh language in describing some of the religious leaders of our day, just like Jesus did in His day. I am talking about the widow robbing mega-church, T.V. evangelists types. I do have a problem with using harsh language in describing the average Joe Blow church goer who is trying his best to serve God based on the knowledge he does have, much like the multitudes were in Jesus time. I was there only a few months ago, and many of my friends are still there. I think we should be careful about painting too broad a brush when it comes to the religious system out there. I consider being in it at one time part of God's plan for my life, and I did learn some valuable truths in it, but there came a time when I had to move on based upon what the Lord was revealing to me, and so here I am. Remember, we wouldn't even know the truths we now hold so dear if it wasn't for the Holy Spirit of God revealing them to us. For some reason, they are still in it, and God is working in their lives, just like He was working in my life and many of you before we came to the understanding we have now. I see God drawing people out, so maybe we should be careful about the way we post so it doesn't seem like were coming down to hard on that average Joe Blow church goer, and lay the issue at the feet of the real problem - the hypocritical leadership in the religious system, just like Jesus did.
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Dewy
I believe you have recieved some pretty Scripturally sound and sincere responses to your post from the members. :) I hope you can recieve some food for your thoughts from my perspective.
I have chosen to respond to you line by line.
My responce to what you are saying is in blue font. You say....
As I read all the posts that have been posted lately, most of them seem to have been directed toward the churches around the world .
Why have a problem with this. Most of the people who will go to Jesus will be told “Depart from Me!” These “most of the people” are clearly defined in Ray’s teachings as being those Church loving, God defying people of Christendom. They are not the people from Japan or Russia or England or etc etc but the people who confess Jesus is the Son of God but who merchandise out His Word and take captive to their doctrines of error millions of people. They will all have to repent. The followers and the leaders. God has said Come out lest you share in Her plagues. Who is going to share in Her plagues? The followers are going to share in her plagues. Is God unjust. Is God wrong to assign a plague to a follower of error? Is God unfair for telling us that error and the idol of false teaching will be destroyed and this will occur in a unpleasant way for those who uphold them.
There is a thread discussing our idols being turned into powder. That is no walk in the park. Do we resent God for chastisement? Do we resent God for showing His love through judgment and chastisement and eventually wrath. If we do then we go against God not man.
The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different,
“A little bit different is not just a LITTLE BIT different. Satan said to Jesus just bow to me ONE time, just a little bit! Beware the yeast of the Pharisee. One needs only a drop of arsenic to poison the whole loaf.
and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon.
This is not a right but a scriptural truth and discernment. Either you are in Babylon or you are not.
Almost to compare them to dirt ,
So what is dirt. Is it not dust? What does Satan eat? The dust. What is the carnal mind to Satan. Breakfast lunch and dinner and all the snacks in-between. God made it so. Are we to resent and despise the goodness of God. I do not believe so. :) Satan has also had me for lunch and snacks on me occasionally too! I am still carnal. :( That is the sad part....We are all still in the process of becoming pure,perfect and Christ like. We are all still learning and growing and being trained into righteousness. It is not a done work yet. God uses Satan to bring us an experience of evil. From this we are humbled and we learn. Non enjoy this but some recognise God is the one who is our Father who is correcting us and disciplining us. Some reject God and try to escape chastisement. Scripture tells us not to resent God but to receive His chastisements and corrections knowing that God knows what is best for us and that He loves us and corrects us for our own good.
if you think that I am wrong go back and read some of your earlier posts.
Who is the accuser of the brethren? Are you accusing us? :(
How soon we forget, just what it was that Jesus said when he spoke to his followers . [MT7:3 thru 5]
Are you aware that there is a teaching on this? It is profound, humbling and brilliant. For me, it is a teaching that shows we are all the Beast. Do you know that we are all the beast?
And just what was it that Jesus said about judging?
I think all His teachings about the Kingdom of God were about His Judgement. The wheat and the tare, the old wine and the new, the few and the many.
He came to judge no one, but if he was to judge it would be just.
Precisely and we know how He judges and will judge and He changes not. He will not judge as man judges because Christ sees the condition of the weak heart of man and man will face the consequences for that and will learn righteousness.
With that I say stop judging the people of the world, lest ye be judged .
Judgment has two sides. The Judgment of Christ leans towards correction. The judgment of man leans towards Hell, eternal torment and the deception of eternal condemnation. For those in Christ there is no condemnation to mans damning extinction, annihilation and endless separation from God or Hell of eternal torment. No such thing. Did you read NOEL NOEL….no hell no hell!
Correction yes. Discernment yes. Test the spirits yes! :)
Just because some of us have the knowledge to speak above the understanding of most people
That is a put down. :( Are you trying to be offensive with this comment? Some how I do not think so but I believe you feel that you have been put down and you should not feel it if you are. To speak above the understanding of most people is what Jesus did. He spoke ABOVE the understanding of EVERYONE!
does not mean that we should post with the words that only a scholar would use.
Non of us here profess to be scholars or are trying to impress others. To do so would be a hollow victory indeed. Our communications here are sincere, honest, open and without hypocrisy or manipulation.
May I suggest that you people that do ask yourself are there people out there that won't understand what I am saying ?
Many people will not understand what we are saying. Those who do understand are given to understand by the Spirit of Christ. Those who do not understand no man or language can make understand no matter how simple the communication. Babylon still does not understand or believe or see that God is Love. Many here in the Forum testify that our understanding of the deep insights and teachings and revelations we have here via Ray, are experienced in layers of understanding. I do not think anyone of us has fully GOT IT yet. It is a process of learning and growing. It is not a quick fix but a life time path of study, effort, suffering and taking up our cross to not only become academic and religious hobbyists but to become like Jesus. First we have to know HIM. That is why we are all here. We are coming to KNOW Him through the Truth of the teachings here. This is our bond of fellowship and unity of mind. It is Christ.
It is like speaking in tongues, if no one understands then why do it ?
No...NO! What we have here is not babble. I would caution you that you reconsider your comparison with what is the knowledge acquaintance and fellowship with the Truth and what is not. What we have here is not like speaking in tongues at all.
In the name of Jesus Christ, Paula and I try to love all people
Perhaps trying to know, accept, understand and therefore love God will bring the consequence of success in loving people. One can not love people without loving He who made them in the first place. God is first here. That is the right way, the way of the Scriptures and the way of Jesus Christ.
If there is any word or sentence you do not understand or would like further explanation in order to come to a deeper comprehension on what is said in any of the Forum posts, I do not believe anyone will find offence or object to any questions you might have. Assumptions and accusations are not questions.
"And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all JUDGEMENT" Phil. 1:9
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
Beloved:
The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different, and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon
WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE YOU REFERRING TO? The last thing that many of us here at BT would consider of ourselves would be that we more Holy than anyone...we know from the scriptures that we are all sinners who God has shown unbelievable mercy to.
WE DO NOT HATE THESE PEOPLE.....AFTERALL THEY WILL ALL BE OUR BRETHERN....WE DO HOWEVER HATE THEIR FALSE DOCTRINES that men promote and try so hard to prove that run contrary to the very nature of God, and we will always let them know that all that they teach is contrary to His gracious Spirit and that they are in error.
Believe a little bit different ::)
And instead of preaching a false gospel to sinners, instead of holding up before them fancied horrors which they may escape (with a short sinners prayer), the true Gospel (God has a plan for all....in an orderly arrangement many called few chosen, first will be last etc) it tells them of the unsearchable riches of Christ, of the glory of the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of righteousness, peace (not of carnality and prosperity that they promote to many). I see a BIG DIFFERENCE NOW
Good Point ALex They are Blind and do not know it...guess what we were too.
Not that I do not see the humor in it but Musicman I do not "poke fun" at their doctrines ...this is serious....This forum is a place for us to learn and recognize and be able to verbalize the folly of our own past foolishishness that we all were into when we were trapped in Babylon and now to be able to stand and defend our own belief .
Dewey this "mushey gushey love" you seem to seem to spout does not seem to be a righteous love because He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives" (Heb. 12:6). Ray basic papers shows that Jesus did not deal with the Pharsees with a wimpy love but reproved them quite harshly and even publically embarassed them. Is there something about Ray teachings that you do not understand?
Another thing, It is Gods word that is reproving todays church ...it is not RAY and it is not any of us. That is why many people who write nasty emails to him cannot refute what he states.
"When Your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9). God's judgments, whether upon saints, nations, or the wicked in general are all corrective in nature, accomplished by the motivation of His nature which is LOVE.
In the first chapter of Hebrews the Father speaks to Jesus Christ, as He heaps this great encomium upon Him: "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Your Kingdom." Why? "You has loved righteousness, and HATED INIQUITY; therefore God, even your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows" (Heb. 1:8-9).
The forum is a place for us to mature and hopefully learn to become become more Chrsit like in nature, we also need to love with the same love and also hate iniquity and sin like He did too.
Fear is the weapon of man and of law. The church uses it to gain power and to get money . Love is the all-conquering sceptre of God. 'God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of love and of power and of a sound mind.
We are in this world, we are to discern the things of this world...
Judging entails passing a sentance......
EVERYONE AT BIBLE TRUTHS KNOWS THAT GOD HAS SAVED TEHM ALL .....
There is NO Judging of people going on here....only of actions, deeds and doctrines.
Just because some of us have the knowledge to speak above the understanding of most people does not mean that we should post with the words that only a scholar would use. May I suggest that you people that do ask yourself are there people out there that won't understand what I am saying ? It is like speaking in tongues, if no one understands then why do it
Because we are commanded to do it. We are to be... the Light...the Salt ...the Truth.....not to be loved by all men....Many will reject what we will tell tell them and we are to expect persecution.
Beloved
Craig:
--- Quote ---The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different,
--- End quote ---
I can't see how you can think this. As God has given me the truths of His word, it has made me to see just how bad I am, it gives me the complete understanding of how Paul stated he was the chiefest of sinners. When I was shown just how wicked the beast is and who it worships you can't help but be humbled and knocked off the pedestal that Babylon put us on before being called out. The people who think others are not as good as them is those who worship in the synagogue of satan. Some of those are blinded, and are our family and friends, but the hateful ones who write Ray have been shown some truth and reject it. And I, after seeing and saying this realize I am more a sinner then they are because God has shown me what sin really is, now I am without excuse and pray daily He will grind me to powder and replace "me" with Christ in me.
--- Quote ---and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon.
--- End quote ---
The "right" comes through the Word of God, if you don't like that then you will have to take that up with His Word.
Sorin:
This "mushey gushey love" that some people seem to spout, makes me sick. And what I've noticed is; those who spout it are often the biggest hypocrites, because since it was all "mushey and gushey" it wasn't anything more than PRETEND LOVE. Going with the flow, the trend of Babylon.
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