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[Little Joe]

Hi Folks,

A thought came to my head while reading the "judge not" thread this morning and all the various comments.  I know I said I wasn't going to comment anymore, but I think I came up with an illustration that may clarify some confusion, at least in my own mind. I didn't know where to post it in, so just left in off topics.

Anyway, here is the real life story I am going to draw my illustration from:

Some time ago at a Benny Hinn "revival", Mr. Hinn claimed he had a prophecy.  The prophecy went something like this, "The Lord just told me that he was soon going to judge the homosexuals.  He would do this by sending down a literal fire from the heavens and smite down every last one of them,"
After he said these words, an almost unanimous cheering and applause was ringing throughout the audience, as people invisioned the gays getting their "just desserts" and being sent to hell fire.  A few, though, were shocked, that Hinn would want this to happen to anyone, they were thinking, "we should want them to come to the Lord for healing and forgiveness, right?  I'm no better then they are".  Hinn lost some followers that day.

Now I see three types of people here.  I see Mr. Hinn as a type of Babylonian High Priest.  Most of the audience are true Babylonians.  The few remainig that were heart broken over Hinns "prophecy" weren't true Babylonians, but were  Babylonian Captives, "little ones" who were caught in  bondage, a type of the nation Israel that are in Babylonian Captivity.  They don't know they have somewhere else to go until the Lord shows them the escape route.

My point is, we don't know who are the true "Babylonian hell mongers" and who are the "Babylonian captives", unless their hearts are manifested by something like the Hinn revival.  That's why it is wrong to paint with a broad brush.  Unless we have evidence to the contrary, we should see those still in the churchian system as possibly "Babylonian captives", and not "Babylonian hell mongers" and pray deeply and fervently for their release from bondage. Think about it.  Such were some of you.

With Love In Christ,

Joe

[LittleBear]

Beautiful and well said.
Thanks Joe!

Ursula

[phazel]

Can't add anything to that except my own path.


Babylonian captive, I was even a captive when I did not attend church after I was no longer forced because I knew nothing else to believe.

I  could say I was a Hell monger for a time, but I do not think I was really,  I think I went back to church as a captive because I still did not really want to be there but needed "fire insurance".

After it was revealed to me that the truths here are who God really is,  I realized I was conned into buying an insurance policy for a disaster that can never happen.


I am free now, I don't quite understand it all,  as I still have many of the same problems I had when I was in church.  But, I see the hope of understanding why that is.   

[Sorin]

Hi Little Joe,

Ok, so there are those who curse people to hell, and those who try to save them from it. But either way, they're both hell mongers because
both groups believe in it, and preach it when they try to convert somebody to their brand of Churchianity.

That's how I see it,
Sorin

[Kat]

I think we can find out in the Scripture exactly who these "little ones" are.  There is several places that Jesus spoke about "little ones.'

Mat 10:5  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:42  And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

Here we see that Jesus is sending out His disciples and referrs to them as "these little ones."  You will note it is before they are converted, but they are in the process of learning the Truth.

Mat 18:1  At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2  And Jesus called a little child unto Him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3  And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:6  But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mat 18:10  See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in Heaven continually look on the face of My Father in Heaven.
Mat 18:14  Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Here Jesus says "Except ye be converted, and become as little children..." He goes on to say "do not despise one of these little ones..." and "not..one of these little ones should perish."

This is the same reference Mark 9 as above where Christ says... Mark 9:42  "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones..."

Luke 17:1  Then said He unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offenses will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
Luke 17:2  It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:3  Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

In this passage in Luke Jesus is talking to the disciple, but in v. 3 He says, "if thy brother"  meaning someone who is a brethren/believer, "if he repent, forgive him."

Every time that Jesus speaks of "little ones" He is referring directly to those that are disciples and followers, those He is teaching the Truth.  Not those still in the church. 
It is my opinion this is speaking of anyone that is coming into this Truth is a little one.  So if they are seeking to know these Truths, then we should be careful, because that is the little ones.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

For me, The Elect are the Little ones OF Christ. They are HIS Children begotten of HIS Spirit are they not?

Christ is the First Preeminent ONE Son of the Father God. All Christ's Elect who are given to HIM by HIS FATHER and Chosen by Jesus Christ, are little next to HIM. Non are greater than Christ who is preeminent.

Lovely post Kat.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Little Joe]

For me, The Elect are the Little ones OF Christ. They are HIS Children begotten of HIS Spirit are they not?

That is exactly correct, Arcturus.  Those begotten in the Spirit.  There are those inside and outside the churchian system that have been begotten of The Spirit.  These people are evidenced by bearing fruits of the Spirit, as mentioned in Galatians 5.  Obviously, the cheering crowd in my analogy were not "one of these little ones" as characterized by there hatred of "sinners", but the others may have been - we don't know who God is calling and electing, so that is why we need to be careful in painting a broad brush.  There are those who are God's elect still in the churchian system.  I was in the churchian system for 27 years, and I've seen it all - the good, the bad, the ugly, and believe me, the Holy Spirit was there working in peoples lives, despite all the hypocrisy.  Some of those people showed evidence of being begotten by God, others did not.  The mark of a Christain is a changed life and bearing fruit - being an overcomer.  I'm not going to call anybody a "Babylonian hell monger", unless their heart is revealed, like that crowd at the Benny Hinn "Revival".

His Peace,

Joe

[Matt]

Amen! 
I have learned a lot the past few days, I am glad that I was able to get in on a good one from the begining.  Because of the time difference, everything is usually finished by the time I wake.

Thanks everyone!

Matt

[Craig]

Well Matt, why are you sleeping?

Don't you know we never sleep here 

Get with the program

Caffeine Craig

[joyful1]

heheehehe!  I just LOVE this one so much....I had to use it one more time!  have a cup everyone!

Joyce

[Sorin]

Red Bull over here...Sugar-free ;p

[Little Joe]

Amen! 
I have learned a lot the past few days, I am glad that I was able to get in on a good one from the begining.  Because of the time difference, everything is usually finished by the time I wake.

Thanks everyone!

Matt

I have too, Matt.  I coined a new term, at least in my way of thinking, "Babylonian Captives"  Hey, it works for me!

Coffee anytime over anything - Remember, I used to be called Java Joe

[Sorin]

Amen! 
I have learned a lot the past few days, I am glad that I was able to get in on a good one from the begining.  Because of the time difference, everything is usually finished by the time I wake.

Thanks everyone!

Matt

I have too, Matt.  I coined a new term, at least in my way of thinking, "Babylonian Captives"  Hey, it works for me!

Coffee anytime over anything - Remember, I used to be called Java Joe

You're Java Joe?!     
Why didn't I think of that? Doh!

[Little Joe]

yep - didn't you used to be yellowstone or something like that?

[Sorin]

yep - didn't you used to be yellowstone or something like that?

Me? No. I was always, Sorin. 

[Martinez]

Hi Folks,

A thought came to my head while reading the "judge not" thread this morning and all the various comments.  I know I said I wasn't going to comment anymore, but I think I came up with an illustration that may clarify some confusion, at least in my own mind. I didn't know where to post it in, so just left in off topics.

Anyway, here is the real life story I am going to draw my illustration from:

Some time ago at a Benny Hinn "revival", Mr. Hinn claimed he had a prophecy.  The prophecy went something like this, "The Lord just told me that he was soon going to judge the homosexuals.  He would do this by sending down a literal fire from the heavens and smite down every last one of them,"
After he said these words, an almost unanimous cheering and applause was ringing throughout the audience, as people invisioned the gays getting their "just desserts" and being sent to hell fire.  A few, though, were shocked, that Hinn would want this to happen to anyone, they were thinking, "we should want them to come to the Lord for healing and forgiveness, right?  I'm no better then they are".  Hinn lost some followers that day.

There's that principal again, Many are called, few are chosen!

[joyful1]

Hinn also said, 5 or 6 years ago that Jesus was going to start appearing on the stage with him in crusades! go figure! Poor guy! But "revelations" about sinners of any kind getting ZAPPED, when (if you believe as Hinn does) people only get ONE CHANCE at getting it right...is rediculous! Joyce

[joyful1]

Okay...you guys have really got me to thinking....about Babylon and what it does to God's "little ones," ....like the Hebrew CHILDREN....Shadrach, Meshack and Abindigo (*sp.?)
...
but rather than hijack this thread...I'll start a new about what came into my mind about Babylon while reading your posts here!
I'll call it Illegal Burning!

Kat-- nice explanation and VERY helpful for me! thanks!

Joyce

[eirinikos]

ugh .. Every time I see his face or hear his name, a little piece of me dies.

There was a little AP release about him too...

DALLAS (AP) - The Internal Revenue Service is looking into the operations and finances of televangelist Benny Hinn’s organization, according to a published report.

The IRS wouldn’t discuss the case, but a representative for Benny Hinn Ministries confirmed to The Dallas Morning News that the inquiry is under way, characterizing it as routine.

Critics have argued that Hinn improperly profits from a ministry that hasn’t met the IRS definition of a church for years. The ministry is estimated to raise more than $100 million a year.

But his public relations contractor dismissed the possibility that tax exemptions could be at risk. Hinn spokesman Ronn Torossian said the ministry has “fully cooperated with the IRS” and is not being audited.

Hinn ministry responses to IRS questions and a purported salary list for ministry officials are among documents that Trinity members said they salvaged from trash bins outside Hinn-related offices.

The salary document lists Hinn as CEO and his annual earnings as $1.325 million. Attorneys for the ministry, in a letter to The News, said the document was either a fake or had been stolen.

[eirinikos]

Anyone like the song Babylon on Don Mclean's American Pie album?

Lyrics:

By the waters, the waters of Babylon
We lay down and wept, and wept, for thee Zion
We remember thee, remember thee, remember thee Zion
(repeated numerous times)