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[lilitalienboi16]

Since they are spiritual and they don't have physical bodies how do they see? How do they communicate for that matter if they don't have vocal chords and lips. Well, it's so fascinating to think about, i love thinking about it but this is not why i'm writing this. I wanted to share with you all something that i feel God inspired my friend to say to me.

We were contemplateing these very thoughts and i asked her, Well how do they see? To which she responded; "I think they see through love."

I was blown away. Spirit beings see through love! Her words were so beautiful and the thought seems so plausible and true. After all, God is love and God is spirit. Yet God doesn't tell us in His word how spirit beings see, how they eat, how they live, do they sleep? Do they dream about things in some distant land as we dream of heaven? These things seem like a mystery, so for now this beautiful thought remains just that, a thought, a dream of a world that seems so undescrible.

I hope you enjoyed dreaming and i invite you to dream with me!

God bless,

Alex

[Kat]

Hi Alex,

I had been thinking about this same thing not too long ago, how do spirit beings see?
The love idea is a good one, but it does not take into account Satan and the demons.
In thinking about this I realized that we are greatly limited by our physical bodies, we can only see what our physical eyes allow us to see, we can only hear what is in the range of our ears.  Spirit being are not limited in this way.
 
Now I was thinking about how I could see things in my mind, daydreams and dreams at night, maybe this is a shadow of the real thing.  If you think about how you see things in your mind, that is limitless, you are not bound by or limited by your physical body. 
Think about if you are a spirit being and you could see anything in the physical realm if you focused your mind on it.  You could see the whole world or you could focus your mind down on one person and what they are doing.  Do you see what I mean?  This is just the way I am thinking it could be.  I believe Jesus spoke about how this was.

John 5:30  I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear (not an audible voice, but in His mind), I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

John 16:16  "A little while, and you will not see Me (physically); and again a little while, and you will see Me (in your mind with spiritual eyes), because I go to the Father."

Thinking of God, He can see the whole world at once and yet He can see every individual at the same time.  I'm thinking when a person is actually born of God they will be completely unitied with the mind of God and will be able to see as God sees, so to speak.  We will not have to be told by God in an audible voice what to do, we will be at one with Him so we will perceive in our minds and know His will.  But we will still be an individual of course.  Like Christ when He was on earth.  He was at one with the Father, He did not have to actually hear the Father's voice physically to know what He wanted Him to do.  When those times where God spoke about Jesus or actually "a voice" spoke, notice what Jesus said.

John 12:28  Father, glorify Your name.  "Then a voice came from heaven, saying, "I have both glorified it and will glorify it again."
v. 29  Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, "An angel has spoken to Him."
v. 30  Jesus answered and said, "This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake.

This is just where my thinking is on this right now.  Hope it helped you a little 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

Yes, i have considered satan howevver i thinking more along the lines of how God sees in spirit. He sees through love. I know satan doesn't see through love, but if God sees that way then one day satan will see through love because He to shall pass through the lake of fire, and so will all of creation. So perhaps one day all of creation will also see through love. However, you're thoughts are very interesting and it does make sence also. Perhaps they tie in together somewhere? Through love with the MIND [as you said in the mind] of GOD.

Let this MIND be in you, that was in CHRIST =]

It's all speculation offcourse, nothing solid, but thanks for joining me! Great stuff, i LOVE it pun intended

Feel free to add more, anyone for that matter, we are all just DREAMING

God bless,

Alex

[Bradigans]

I believe that spiritual beings that see from the perspective of THE WORD, see by and through faith.
 
 - Hebrews 11:4 - By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

 - Hebrews 11:5 - By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 - Hebrews 11:7 - By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

All these men and women (if you continue to read the 11th chapter of Hebrews) had an eternal (a spiritual) perspective on things from the standpoint of faith.

 - Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 - 2 Corinthians 4:18 - While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal (spiritual).

God is eternal (spiritual), and must be worshipped (entered into fellowship with) by and through faith from an eternal (spiritual) standpoint and/or perspective.

 - John 4:24 - God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 - Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith (eternal and spiritual discernment) it is impossible to please him.

By faith, which begins with a spiritual rebirth (John 3:3, John 3:7), you can have exactly what they had in the 11th chapter of Hebrews. It's glorious...

   

[Phil3:10]

Kat,
Your post on how spiritual beings might see was beautifully thought out and expressed. I am not sure right now where it is in the Bible but to paraphrase it somewhat I will try. Eye has not see, nor the mind of men conceived the blessings GOD has in store for HIS called out ones. We can only imagine!
Phil 3:10

[Bradigans]

Kat,
Your post on how spiritual beings might see was beautifully thought out and expressed. I am not sure right now where it is in the Bible but to paraphrase it somewhat I will try. Eye has not see, nor the mind of men conceived the blessings GOD has in store for HIS called out ones. We can only imagine!
Phil 3:10

 - 1 Corinthians 2:7-10 -  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

[Phil3:10]

Bradigans,
Thanks for pointing out these beautiful verses from 1 Corinthians. They express so much better than I ever could that by HIS SPIRIT leads us to the deep things of GOD.
Phil3:10

[Kat]

humm, there is the seeing that we gain when our spiritual eyes are opened to the Truth.  This is of course through God opening our understanding.

But there is the seeing by sight, as with looking on things with our eyes.  This is more of what I was speaking of in my above post.

These two can be overlapped in the Scripture.  But I was thinking of how spirit being have sight and actually look at things.  We have the physical eye which is the receptor and by which qualities of appearance (as position, shape, and color) are perceived.  With spirit being I believe they see the images of the physical things too, but do not have the limitations that we do.  Because if a spirit being was across a field, do you think it could not see what you were holding or hear what you were saying? 

There is a Scripture passage where Christ spoke of seeing someone when He was somewhere else. How did Jesus see Nathanael when he was someplace else?  Then Christ goes into having spiritual sight, I guess because they both related.  Well these are interesting things to comtemplate.

John 1:47  Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!"
v. 48  Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?"
    Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
v. 49  Nathanael answered and said to Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"
v. 50  Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you, "I saw you under the fig tree," do you believe? You will see greater things than these."
v. 51  And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[musicman]

They put on their spiritual glasses!!

[phazel]

The love idea is a good one, but it does not take into account Satan and the demons.

Forgive this train of thought as I am not attempting to preach or offer some other teaching.  I have just been contemplating something and I have to wonder if the Love aspect is correct despite Satan and the demons.


God is love,  love is not something that was created, or at least as the scriptures describe Love it is not a separate spirit.   If all comes out of God and there is nothing that has any will or decision making power apart from Gods plan and design, then all existance has to be covered in love.

I think all our perceptions of Satan and the Demons are caused by Christianity or at least by "religion"  we also have learned that everything that happens, happens for a purpose.

What is that purpose, well, from what we have learned here,  that purpose is of a loving nature, it is for our benefit.  EVERYTHING no matter how we dislike it, is for our benefit.   Proverbs 16:9   God gave us a will in contrast to his so that we could understand that.


Now, with that said,  Satan and the demons were created for a purpose.   They possibly are aware more so of their purpose than we are.    Would the demons think in terms of eternal damnation?

The passages talking about the men with unclean spirits.   I saw one thing very peculiar.    Jesus talks respectfully with the spirits.  In fact, the pharasees  catch more flak from Jesus than the unclean spirits are concerned.   Then Jesus honors the request of the Demons.

So what I am contemplating is could there be a love there?  Could Satan and the demons know this love of the Savior?    I think it is quite possible.


When the demons ask Jesus if he was going to torment them before the time  then the Demons already know.   Take for instance a carnal human who is evil and does not believe.  Would that person have that same knowledge of their fate?   Do they murder understanding it is for Gods purpose?


Just some thoughts.

[Kat]

Hi Phazel,

I agree love is always good.  What I meant was Satan and the demons do not see through love.  I was looking at this one way and I see others were looking at it differently.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Bradigans]

Bradigans,
Thanks for pointing out these beautiful verses from 1 Corinthians. They express so much better than I ever could that by HIS SPIRIT leads us to the deep things of GOD.
Phil3:10

You're welcome dear brother. Isn't God's Word just beautiful? Don't you just love it?

[Bradigans]

humm, there is the seeing that we gain when our spiritual eyes are opened to the Truth.  This is of course through God opening our understanding.

But there is the seeing by sight, as with looking on things with our eyes.  This is more of what I was speaking of in my above post.

These two can be overlapped in the Scripture.  But I was thinking of how spirit being have sight and actually look at things.  We have the physical eye which is the receptor and by which qualities of appearance (as position, shape, and color) are perceived.  With spirit being I believe they see the images of the physical things too, but do not have the limitations that we do.  Because if a spirit being was across a field, do you think it could not see what you were holding or hear what you were saying? 

There is a Scripture passage where Christ spoke of seeing someone when He was somewhere else. How did Jesus see Nathanael when he was someplace else?  Then Christ goes into having spiritual sight, I guess because they both related.  Well these are interesting things to comtemplate.

John 1:47  Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!"
v. 48  Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?"
    Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
v. 49  Nathanael answered and said to Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"
v. 50  Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you, "I saw you under the fig tree," do you believe? You will see greater things than these."
v. 51  And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

I believe He is referring to seeing things from an eternal perspective which is what we call spiritual discernment or faith. We all know what physical discernment is. We've grown quite adept to manipulating the universe through the physical senses (touch, taste, sight, smell, hearing). But, there's a much more profound way to manipulate the universe. It's beyond the physical senses and the knowledge you attain thereby. It called faith, or the evidence of things not seen, spiritual things.

 - Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Your physical sight is the evidence of things seen from a physical perspective. Faith is the evidence of things seen (the unseen physically) from a spiritual perspective. You will have a better picture of things seen even from the physical standpoint because things seen physically are made from things that don't appear.

 - Hebrews 11:3 - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

There's unfathomably more color and contrast when you see things in the physical from not only the standpoint of physical sight (discernment) but spiritual sight (discernment) also. From standpoint of faith (spiritual discernment), you can kind of tap in and see some what how God see's things. God is a Spirit, and this is why it's impossible to please Him without spiritual discernment (faith) and the knowledge attained thereby.

 - Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You have got to see things from His perspective, the perspective of faith. It begins first by being born again.

 - John 3:3-7 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

You don't have to die physically to experience the kingdom of God. It's here!!! Alleluia!!! You just have to have the faith that comes through the rebirth to appreciate it.

Keep me in your prayers...   
   

[hillsbororiver]

 - John 3:3-7 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

You don't have to die physically to experience the kingdom of God. It's here!!! Alleluia!!! You just have to have the faith that comes through the rebirth to appreciate it.
 

BEGOTTEN OR BORN ANEW FROM ON HIGH


Was Jesus gennao in Nazereth, and gennao in Bethlehem also? Is this a contradiction of the Scriptures?

Christ was CONCEIVED (#1080 gennao - regenerate, beget, conceive, be born) in Nazareth (Luke 1:26-31).

But Christ was BORN (#1080 gennao - regenerate, beget, conceive, be born) in Bethlehem (Matt. 2:1).

Notice that Jesus was "conceived" before He was born: Isn't that the normal way it is done? Were not you and every human on earth "conceived" before they were actually "born?" Yes, of course they were. So how is it then that we go straight to being "born again" before we are "conceived anew from on high?"

Notice too that those who are "born again" are invisible "like the wind" (John 3:3....) Surely there are no Christians alive today who are invisible like the wind are there? I know of no Version that has these verses correct, 1 Peter 1:23 is likewise speaking of a spiritual "conception" or "begettal" (from seed) rather than an actual birth. He that is born of the Spirit IS SPIRIT!

From the Mobile Conference 2006

[lilitalienboi16]

They put on their spiritual glasses!!

lawl!

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Joe

I noticed in red font, what you posted from the Mobile Conference:

Christ was CONCEIVED (#1080 gennao - regenerate, beget, conceive, be born) in Nazareth (Luke 1:26-31).

But Christ was BORN (#1080 gennao - regenerate, beget, conceive, be born) in Bethlehem (Matt. 2:1). unquote.


It appears that the physical record is in Matthew's account and the spiritual invisible conception is in Luke's account while in the Gospel according to Mark, the birth/conception of Christ is completely omitted!

Then in the Gospel of John the meaning of the spiritual is displayed in the following...

John 1 : 12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the Sons of God....which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The Scriptures do not contradict and together they present a very Grand Plan and Big Picture of God's marvelous handywork!
Peace to you

Arcturus