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Author Topic: Eternal misery for ALL!  (Read 4662 times)

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David

  • Guest
Re: Eternal misery for ALL!
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2008, 09:23:04 AM »

I've always been told that God won't erase ALL of our memories - just the memories of those who lived and ended up in hell. It will be to us as if they never existed.

If you think about it, that's totally ridiculous. Men will remember being fathers without any assistance from women. Children will remember being raised without adults. All the "saved" will live forever with large portions of their memories erased. Ask any amnesiac how comfortable THAT is!

Good point Sandy...........and another thing about this erasing the memory garbage, if Christ and his saints are to judge all those that end up in Hell, how are the saints to know what we are judging, or how??
By suggesting such a thing that God will wipe out our memories of our loved ones that are in hell, they actually add a new dimension of depravity to the God they believe in. The concept suggests that God is going to with his people all the time keeping it a secret that he's tormenting and torturing billions of people every second for all eternity. It would be like a man murdering a womans husband, never being caught, then seducing her and marrying her, all the time knowing what he did. I wonder if any of them realise just how sick their minds are. 
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Bradigans

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Re: Eternal misery for ALL!
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2008, 12:08:33 PM »

This thought occured to me yesterday after pondering a recent "conversaton" with a member of a local methodist Church.
If the garbage of eternal hell were real, then the chances are this would mean eternal misery and torment for everyone!
Surely every Christian in the world has a family member, loved one, close freind etc that is not a Christian. I know from my own experience that in the UK, most Christians have several family members that do not believe. The UK right now is becoming more and more secular, and the Government, media and education system is actively encouraging secularism in society.
This being so, the Hope that the mainstream Church is offering is a false hope. How can anyone rejoice in heaven for all eternity knowing they have a brother or sister, mother or faher, husband or wife, son or daughter burning and being tormented in hell for all eternity?
I think there is more to what Paul said in 1Cor 15:32 If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”


I have to give you a partial amen. I'm not certain how the verse you referenced is in reference to the rest of what you said. Could you clarify?
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David

  • Guest
Re: Eternal misery for ALL!
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2008, 11:04:07 PM »

This thought occurred to me yesterday after pondering a recent "conversation" with a member of a local Methodist Church.
If the garbage of eternal hell were real, then the chances are this would mean eternal misery and torment for everyone!
Surely every Christian in the world has a family member, loved one, close Friend etc that is not a Christian. I know from my own experience that in the UK, most Christians have several family members that do not believe. The UK right now is becoming more and more secular, and the Government, media and education system is actively encouraging secularism in society.
This being so, the Hope that the mainstream Church is offering is a false hope. How can anyone rejoice in heaven for all eternity knowing they have a brother or sister, mother or father, husband or wife, son or daughter burning and being tormented in hell for all eternity?
I think there is more to what Paul said in 1Cor 15:32 If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”


I have to give you a partial amen. I'm not certain how the verse you referenced is in reference to the rest of what you said. Could you clarify?

Put simply, if the dead do not rise either in the 1st resurrection to rule with Christ, or in the 2nd resurrection to judgement and then salvation, but are transcended instantly to either heaven or hell, then there is no hope for anyone. Because of all those transcended to heaven, they will know many that are burning in hell, most probably someone they loved deeply in their physical life on earth.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Eternal misery for ALL!
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2008, 01:36:32 AM »


Hi David,

I agree (as the church teaches they're all going straight up to heaven at death), how could they be truely happy there knowing a loved one, not only didn't make it to heaven, but is in torment forever  ???

That Scripture is hard to grasp unless you understand why Paul is speaking of in 1 Cor. 15:32 IF the dead do NOT rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”
If you go back a few verses you can see what he is talking about, there were those who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead.

1Co 15:12  Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
v. 13  But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
v. 14  And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
v. 15  Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise.
v. 16  For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
v. 17  And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
v. 18  Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
v. 19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

I hope this will give some a better understanding of that verse  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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David

  • Guest
Re: Eternal misery for ALL!
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2008, 10:03:42 PM »


Hi David,

I agree (as the church teaches they're all going straight up to heaven at death), how could they be truely happy there knowing a loved one, not only didn't make it to heaven, but is in torment forever  ???

That Scripture is hard to grasp unless you understand why Paul is speaking of in 1 Cor. 15:32 IF the dead do NOT rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”
If you go back a few verses you can see what he is talking about, there were those who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead.

1Co 15:12  Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
v. 13  But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
v. 14  And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
v. 15  Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise.
v. 16  For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
v. 17  And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
v. 18  Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
v. 19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

I hope this will give some a better understanding of that verse  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat



Thanks Kat, great scriptures.
I think these scriptures strike at the very heart of the false doctrine of instant transcendence at the point of death that is in the Church.
A scripture that for me is extremely profound that witnesses to these scriptures is Romans 8:38-39. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The Church teaches that if you die without knowing Christ, too late and tough luck, you burn forever. And yet Paul teaches the total opposite here and the first thing he lists that he believes cannot separate us from the love of God is death. The Church rationalises it by saying it only means those that believe..........but then they just don't realise that each time they say a scripture is just for them, or not for them, or has a context pertaining to a time or group of people, they throw the Bible in the trash. If any one part of it is not for all today, then none of it is.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 10:05:58 PM by David »
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