Holy Spirit

[kweli]

Hi everybody

Unlearning is harder than learning. So please bear with me.

People claim to have God's Holy Spirit and that God speaks to them, but they blaspheme His name. Still wondering how that works. Is it just a phantom spirit they have or do they have the Spirit but dont always listen to it?

If I missed this from some thread or Ray's teachings please direct me to it.

All Glory to Him
Kweli

[musicman]

They're deceived.

[Beloved]

Hi Kweli

Here is a post from Ray email on the subject

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4176.0.html

IMO I think that they think that they have to Holy Spirit...but when they carry on and fall backwards etc I now think another spirit is working.

I do think that the many called had the Holy Spirit when they first believed but that they left their first love just, as we did. As a result they have quenched it many times over by their carnal lives and apetities for signs and wonders.  


I agree with you musicman 

Only through the grace of God have some been led back to their first love, their eyes and ears have been opened and as they endure the chatisments and mature and endure they have more of works of the Holy Spirit in thier lives.  

God is spirit and is everywhere, he is working everywhere and He allows satan to sift who He chooses and the Holy Spirit to work where he wills.

Do not know if this helps you  

Beloved

[David]

Although it is hard to understand, it is possible to have the Holy Spirit and yet still be carnal, a slave to the law and the flesh. After the Appostles had recieved the Holy Spirit, they still for a time continued in physical rituals such as water baptizms, attending the temple prayer hours (Acts 3:1), even physical circumcision (Acts 16:1-4). The Corinthian Church were according to Paul behind or lacking in no gifts, meaning spiritual gifts. And yet they were totally carnal. They were splitting into factions and had contentions amongst them (1 Cor 1:11-13). They had a man in their Church fornicating with his Fathers wife, and ch 6 tells us they had little idea how to deal with this issue. IN fact the two epistles to the Corinthian Church are chock full of instruction on just about every aspect of the life of a Christian, on how to conduct the Church etc. Paul didn't give them these instructions because they were doing everything right, they were totally carnal.
So these people in the Church today that run around like headless chickens, speak like chucky the horror doll, foam at the mouth etc all have the Spirit, but they are totally carnal and totally decieved.
Be blessed
David.   

[Kat]

Hi Kweli,

I think this email will explain what spirit the church has.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,305.0.html ----

    Do those in "the church" have the Spirit?


    COMMENT:  NO, they have "a" spirit.


     If so, how did it come, why do they have it, and why is it so unproductive?


    COMMENT:  Oh, but their spirit of Satan is most productive. Along with doing "many wonderful works," they have succeeded in "deceiving the WHOLE WORLD."


      If not, how do those in "His church" get it, since it is most often that thay come out of "the church"?


    COMMENT: Coming out of the church is the only way that one will be given the Holy Spirit of God.


    Speaking for myself, it certainly seems that Jesus came quickly to me a couple of months ago with new ears.   After this,  virtually everything I was hearing in "the church" made no sense anymore.  Did I not have the Spirit prior to this?


    COMMENT:  I would not presume to say if or when you received God's Spirit, as I do not know you, what you believe, or how you live.


    Thanks for your help.
    Mark


    COMMENT:  When sin no longer "has dominion over you," you will know that God's Holy Spirit is operating in you. Not that you will not sin, but sin will not lord it over you; you will no longer be a slave to sin; you will not be fighting sin ever moment of your day; you will be given peace in that area of your life.

    God be with you,
    Ray
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This is from The Lake of Fire - Myth of Free Will, part B.  I thought it would help with this discussion.

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

THE CHURCH OF GOD IN PRIVATE HOUSES

There was a transition period where the disciples still went up to the temple, but God's intimate dealings would now be found in more humble surroundings. When the Holy Spirit was poured out on the first Saints of Jesus, it was not in a synagogue, but in a house:

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all THE HOUSE where they were sitting" (Acts 2:1-2).

Church services were held in houses:

"Likewise greet the church that is in their house" (Rom. 16:5).

"The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house" (I Cor. 16:19).

"Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house� (Col., 4:15).

"Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer, and to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in your house" (Philemon 1-2).

When we come to the famous Jerusalem Conference in the fifteenth chapter of Acts, we read that Paul and Barnabas were "...being brought on their way by the CHURCH..." (Acts 15:3). This is the Church of Jesus Christ, not the church of the synagogue system. Notice that in this conference their determination was to not force the Law of Moses on new Gentile converts:

"Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with THE WHOLE CHURCH..." (Acts 15:22).

The High Priests did not attend this conference. This was the first 'ecumenical counsel,' if you will, of the Church of Jesus Christ, consisting of only those who believed, who formulated policy which would be binding on the whole church.

The Jews had "synagogues"—church buildings. The newly converted Christians came out of those synagogue church buildings and their doctrines, and met in homes. Why? Mostly because Christ was not taught or tolerated in these synagogues. In order to worship and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, it became necessary to "come out of her"—the synagogue system of religion.

Jesus Christ, the teachings of Jesus Christ, and the followers of Jesus Christ were hated and despised by most leaders of most synagogues. Do we think that anything has changed regarding this in today's churches? If Jesus Christ returned to virtually any Christian church in the world today, unrecognized in a business suit, and began teaching His own Gospel, the leaders of the churches would throw Him out. And I say this without the least hesitation as to what the implications of my statement are.

THE MILK BUT NOT THE MEAT

The "DEPTHS of God" in Christ Jesus are not tolerated in the Church today. They may teach the name of Jesus. They may teach that Jesus died for you. They may teach that there is forgiveness of sins in Jesus. They may teach that Jesus ONLY is your Saviour. But is the teaching of "Christ crucified" the "DEPTHS of God"? No, it is not. Paul did teach the Corinthians about "Christ crucified" (I Cor. 1:23). Paul also admitted that this was merely the "milk and not meat [solid food]" (I Cor. 3:2). The Corinthians had the "milk of God's word," but this did not make them spiritual. Notice what Paul says:

"For ye [Gk: 'ye' means, all of you] are yet CARNAL" (Verse 3).

And what does it mean to be "carnal"? Answer:

"For to be CARNALLY MINDED IS DEATH (Rom. 8:6)!

Paul DID NOT; Paul COULD NOT, teach the Corinthians (and others) the "meat" of God's word, because, "ye are yet carnal." Am I going too fast for anyone? Are you looking up these Scriptures that I am presenting? Have I misrepresented anything that Paul has written for "OUR admonition upon which the ends of the world are come" (I Cor. 10:11)? The Church as a whole has never understood the deep and spiritual things of God! Only "The FEW"—the "called" and "chosen"—"the ELECT."

The Galatian congregation was equally carnal to those of the Corinthian congregation. Paul asks them:

"Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect [mature] by the FLESH? " (Gal. 3:3).

They had a "first love," but they "LEFT thy first love" (Rev. 2:4). I, and everyone that I know, have sometime in their life, "LEFT their first love." If you have never "left your first love," I have serious doubts as to whether you ever had a first love. It is the natural progression of our maturing, according to the Scriptures.

I received an email this week from someone who said that I both slander and call Jesus a liar when I teach that He will not torture people for all eternity for their sins. How much of the Gospel of Jesus Christ do you suppose his church would tolerate from me before throwing me out on my ear?

DOES JESUS RESIDE AND DWELL IN THE CHURCH?

Does not Jesus dwell and reside in the Seven Churches of God mentioned in the Book of Revelation? Actually, He does not. Let's read it:

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things says He that holds the seven stars in his right hand, who WALKS in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks" (Rev. 2:1).

Jesus Christ "walks" in the midst of the churches—He does not dwell there; He does not reside there; He does not have His throne there. But someone else does:

SATAN has his "seat [Greek: 'throne']" in the Churches (Rev. 2:13)

SATAN "dwells" in the Churches (Rev. 2:13).

SATAN still has his "synagogue" in the Churches (Rev. 2:9 & 3:9).

SATAN'S "depths" of doctrinal evils are in the Churches (Rev. 2:24).

It is Satan who has his "throne" in the Churches--the Throne of Jesus Christ is in Heaven with His Father (Rev. 3:21), not in the church. He is not enthroned in the Church; He merely "walks" in the Churches.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

[dewey]

hey david ,just wanted to say this about that, these people that run around ,I just wanted to say that these [people that run around foaming at the mouth want to know our father as much as any one of us that has been shown a shadow of his face .David I beg you to pray for these people that run around like a headless chicken ,they go to a church for a purpose , they want to know GOD, If they knew god as you and I do , they would talk a different talk, they would walk a different walk,No  man knows  when he will be touched by our father,and it is not up to the individual when this will happen, Remember this. I chose you , and you know who said it.And david  you ask is it possible to have the holly spirit and still be carnal , answer no, how ever it is posible to have been touched  by the spirit in this physical life . If you were filled with the spirit you could point your finger, and destroy the city of chicago, there are no human beings that have this power, . They have been given the spirit that gives them life ,  that is not the holy spirit.  That is enough on this subject .Hey at the risk of sounding like mushy gushy love, dewey and paula said it. In the spirit of JesusChrist  we love all the people that will let us.and those that were offended ,

[kweli]

Thank you all for your responses. I suppose this is the MEAT. It's not cookies and MILK (thanks for the reminder Kat). However, since we are to come to Him as the young ones, cookies and MILK sound like a better diet for us...the good news are indeed sweet in the mouth but bitter in the stomach.

Holy Spirit May You Please Intervene, as He Wills

All Glory to Him

[David]

hey david ,just wanted to say this about that, these people that run around ,I just wanted to say that these [people that run around foaming at the mouth want to know our father as much as any one of us that has been shown a shadow of his face .David I beg you to pray for these people that run around like a headless chicken ,they go to a church for a purpose , they want to know GOD, If they knew god as you and I do , they would talk a different talk, they would walk a different walk,No  man knows  when he will be touched by our father,and it is not up to the individual when this will happen, Remember this. I chose you , and you know who said it.And david  you ask is it possible to have the holly spirit and still be carnal , answer no, how ever it is posible to have been touched  by the spirit in this physical life . If you were filled with the spirit you could point your finger, and destroy the city of chicago, there are no human beings that have this power, . They have been given the spirit that gives them life ,  that is not the holy spirit.  That is enough on this subject .Hey at the risk of sounding like mushy gushy love, dewey and paula said it. In the spirit of JesusChrist  we love all the people that will let us.and those that were offended ,

Hi Dewy. Thank you for your post. I apologise if what I said sounded like I was attempting to be superior in some way to anyone, that was not my intention. I pray often without ceasing for those that are still in Babylon, as I pray for many people that are not even there yet. I myself was where these people are not so long ago, and was just as bad. The fact that I didn't run around or speak in unknown tongues or foam at the mouth doesn't make me or anyone else  in Babylon or those that have come out of her any better. I still believed a lot of the lies and practiced the rituals, thinking I was doing God a favour.
I didn't ask if it were possible to have the Holy Spirit, that was Kweli's question. I was attempting to answer is all.
You say that .........."is it possible to have the holly spirit and still be carnal , answer no, ".......and........."If you were filled with the spirit you could point your finger, and destroy the city of chicago, there are no human beings that have this power, . They have been given the spirit that gives them life ,  that is not the holy spirit. "........
Well according to Scripture those Apostles and Disciples on the day of Pentecost were filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4), and Paul after his conversion experience on the road to Damascus, Ananias was sent by Christ that Saul may receive his sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17). The Corinthians according to scripture were behind in no gift, (1 Cor 1:7) later translations have this verse as lacking in no gift. The NIV has it as lacking in no spiritual gift. I have a kjv that has a reference note in the outside colum that says "the Gospel was fully preached and confirmed so that believers came behind in no gift of the Holy Spirit.
And yet, the Apostles and Disciples in Acts continued for a time with rituals. Paul and Peter had a dispute over Peters behaviour towards Gentiles. Paul bowed to pressure from the Jews and Circumcised Timothy. The Corinthian Church were told no less than four times by Paul that they indeed were carnal. So according to Scripture it is possible to be filled with the Holy Spirit, not just be touched by it, and still be carnal.
Be blessed
David.