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[phazel]

Every time they choose of their own free will to have a child, they gamble with its soul.

[Beloved]

God  gives them the desire to have children. They have no control over anyone's soul including their childrens, they do not even control their own because God is the only one who does.

The point you are trying to make may have some spiritual connotation in that :  if their children do not follow the manmade doctrines that they themselves follow, it will cause them to be anxious and feel guilty.  If they do follow them,  then they will feel the same in the second judgement.

They know not what they do some times. The carnal man is delusional and thinks too much of man himself that it on the throne.


beloved
 

[Sorin]

Every time they choose of their own free will to have a child, they gamble with its soul.

Exactly! At least in their minds they do so; since they are firm believers in free-will and free moral agency and therefore an Unsovereign God. So it's up to the kids to save themselves--you got to be your own savior. Jesus "ain't gonna save ya"...sure He died for the sins of the world, but you have to choose Him. He does not choose you--He just died so that whoever randomly decides to believe in Him will be saved. Why He doesn't even know who will and will not be saved because we all have free will and therefore nothing in God's knowledge of the future is set in stone, because that would mean that it has to happen the way He knows it will, and that would be bad news for free-will.

Why can't Christians see that this is what they believe--even though they won't acknowledge it?

[SandyFla]

Every time they choose of their own free will to have a child, they gamble with its soul.

When I was in Bible College, one of my professors said she and her husband debated for years about having children because of the possibility of them going to hell. She said they spoke to a minister, who told them that if they raised a "child in the way he should go, when he is old, he will not depart from it." That gave them OK to have 2 children. ... But, if you think about it, that would also dictate that the children themselves have no free will! Because they were raised right, they won't (can't) depart from that "right" way.

[Craig]

Uugh christian doctrine is so asinine.

Craig

[Paul]

I've thought of this phenomenon, myself! 

[phazel]

The point you are trying to make may have some spiritual connotation in that :  if their children do not follow the manmade doctrines that they themselves follow, it will cause them to be anxious and feel guilty.  If they do follow them,  then they will feel the same in the second judgement.

I was being very sarcastic towards the doctrine of hell from a free will point of view. However sarcastic that is, I also think it is a logic point of view.

Considering the weight placed on believers to try to get someone saved and to avoid hell, just the act of having children and not being able to determine their eternal fate is one "hell" of a gamble.   

[ciy]

Great perspective and something that should be thought of more often.  It goes to a post in Other Topics a couple of years ago about Andrea Yates who drowned her 5 babies in a bath tub because she wanted to make sure that they all went to heaven.  In order to guarantee that she killed them before they reached the age of accountability.

Ponder that a while.  What mother who truly loved their children and believed in an eternal hell that her children would have the chance of going to once they reached the age of accountability would not kill them to guarantee heaven?  This shows the lunacy of an eternal hell doctrine and I am still amazed that I believed it for over 50 years.  When God deceives He really makes you completely blind.

My mother, who I thought was the greatest mother in the world, now pales compared to Andrea Yates.  Why did my mother not love me enough to have guaranteed my place in heaven?

God forgive me for the blasphemy I spewed all of those years of believing in an eternal hell. 
CIY

[phazel]

CIY,


There is another terrible perspective for the mother that drowned her children.

A christian might determine that the Mother would go to hell for killing her children.   Ok, I then think they would be left with another paradox.

There is a scripture that talks about giving up your own life for another being a great act of love.  What if it was argued that the mother was willing to go to hell herself in order to prevent her children from going?


Can the Christian argue a negative aspect if indeed the children are in heaven now?   Under the doctrine of hell and self sacrifice how could a christian argue a negative on this.   What could thay say about a woman who was willing to sacrifice her soul for the sake of her children?

[ciy]

I agree Phazel. 
And to show how convoluted the doctrine is, the mother could not go to hell for killing her kids because all she had to do is believe in Christ and the doctrine.  If she believes in hell, she had to believe in Christ at some point in her life.  I have had so many over the years tell me that they were saved by the old "11 second" prayer when they were 13 or so, but lived like hell for another 30 years before starting to go to church.
Makes it simple and even tickles one's ears.

CIY