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[Sorin]

Romans 7:7-25

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, Do not covet.

    8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.

    9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

    10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

    11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

    12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

    13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognised as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

    14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

    15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

    16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

    17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

    18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

    19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do— this I keep on doing.

    20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

    21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.

    22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law;

    23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.

    24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

    25 Thanks be to God— through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

------------------------------

So what are we to do in this situation? When we want to do good, but instead do the evil that we don't want to do--that we try to
pull away from? I know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal--sold under sin. In my mind I want to obey God's spiritual law, but my
carnal nature pulls me back into sin. And like Paul, I too will say: "What a wretched man I am!"

Only God can rescue me from this body of death. I try doing it myself, but fail everytime.

[Bradigans]

Yes, in your mind your want the desire to do right. But, what’s in your heart?

 - Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

You have an intellectual want to do...

[Little Joe]

The solution,

Galations 5: 16  I say then:  Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Peace

[Kat]

Hi Sorin,

May I suggest that you read more of what Paul is talking about here than that short passage.  As chapers 5 and 6 of Romans has already explained the answer to this passage.

Romans 7:7-25

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, Do not covet.

    8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.

I believe here Paul is talking about how he came to understand what sins were, when he learned the law.  If you don't know what the law is, you can claim ignorance, even though it is still sin.  But when Paul learned the law (do not covet), he realized he had covetous desires of every kind.

  9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

    10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

    11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

We are all deceived at first (Titus3:3), and we are all dead in our sins.  Of course Paul was way beyond this in his life, but he says it for the benefit it will have to others.

Rom 5:12  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

   

12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

    13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognised as sin, it produced death in me  through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

We know/recognise what sin is because the law tells us.  Then we know we are dead, because we have all sinned.  The law is not bad, it is to show us where we sin.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

    15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

    16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

    17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

    18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

    19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do— this I keep on doing.

    20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

    21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.

Rom 5:20  Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
Rom 5:21  so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

So we are all dead in our sins and as Paul states " Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?"  and here is his answer to the brethren and these are believers;

Rom 6:2  Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
v. 3  Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Rom 6:4  Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law;

    23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.

    24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

When we are dragged to Christ and we learn the Truth, then in our "inner being I delight in God's law."  But we must be rescued from this "body of death."

 

25 Thanks be to God— through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Rom 6:8  Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
v. 9  knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
v. 10  For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
v. 11  Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
v. 12  Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
v. 13  And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God
v. 14  For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

I hope this helps 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Brett]

Hi Kat,

You said:

But we must be rescued from this "body of death."

After read Rom 7:24 "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?"

"We must"? For me "we must" is like we work on our own self? Sorry I am not good English reading and writing. Can you tell me who is "who will" in Romans 7:24, if you know?

Thank you,
Brett

[Martinez]

Hey Sorin.

So what if you fail all the time, it's a necessary part of the process!

God has to get you to the place where you know with all certainty that you absolutely can do nothing without Him.
He gets us to struggle and struggle against sin and fail again and again so He can humble us.
If you were to just go straight out and conquer your sin, I guarantee that you would not be in the first Resurrection, because you would be so self righteous and so proud that you would be of no use to God.
God has to get you to that place where He utterly destroys the beast that is you.
Ironically it is the pride of the beast that comes before his fall, because it's just when He thinks that his grip on you is so unbreakable that that is when God comes in and destroys him!

Does that mean that We stop struggling against sin until that time comes then?
No because then it wouldn't work. we have to struggle against it.

I think of it this way.

The spiritual man is like the chicken and the flesh is like the egg. if you help a chicken out of it's egg so it doesn't struggle it actually weakens the chicken and so it is with us.

That's just the way I look at it I guess.



Martinez.

[Deborah-Leigh]

I like the chicken and the egg Martinez....

Like the slug and the butterfly!

Peace to you brother

Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi Brett,

When we are blind to the Truth and in "this body of death" as Paul said in Rom 7:24 "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?"

The answer to that question is when we are bragged to Christ, we are rescued.  No, this is not something we work on our own self, if is in God's time and will 

When we are dragged to Christ and we learn the Truth, then in our "inner being I delight in God's law."  But we must be rescued from this "body of death."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Matt]

Sorin,
 You are not the only one !  Here is an email of Ray's I read when I get frustrated .

Ray


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In one of your emails you said that God expects us sin, which means he's not disappointed or angry with us?

The question here is: Everytime I sin, I ask forgiveness and repent. I feel that it's not working (repenting, asking forgiveness, etc). Am I doing something wrong?

[Ray Replies]

Dear Jeff:

Unfortunately, there is not a magic bullet that will instantly clean us of all sin and bad habits. Even the physical analogies of this spiritual washing, purging, and cleaning of our carnality, indicate that time is required. It takes time to wash clothing, it takes time to purify gold and silver in a furnace, etc.

The penalty of sin issue can be settled in your heart and mind the instant you come to realize that Jesus PAID IN FULL the penalty for your sins and all the sin of the world. However, paying the penalty for sin does not instantly PURGE AND WASH US CLEAN OF SIN. The penalty is paid, but the condition lingers.

The more you SEE your sins and shortcomings, the more you will DESIRE to rid yourself of these things. We are crucified WITH CHRIST, yet we live, but the life we live is one of OVERCOMING THE SINS FOR WHICH WE AND CHRIST DIED FOR.

We have been HAND-PICKED by God to be in His kingdom. Now we must go through the training course that He has set before us.  Jesus said that He overcame THE WORLD. We too are to overcome THE WORLD. It's a HUGE task, that requires the power of SPIRIT to accomplish. 

Don't become discouraged in well-doing. You will triumph in Christ if you have His spirit working in you. God will even give you the DESIRE to want to do right and be right.

This life is a life of SPIRITUAL WARFARE. There will be many battles before the final victory. So we must endure and we must overcome. For those whom God has chosen, this will be accomplished!

God be with you,

Ray

Blessings,
Matt

[Sorin]

Thank you all for your replies. In Romans 6 it sounds like Paul is implying that we can be sinless in this age....? I'm not sure if that's what he means by 'being dead to sin', but I don't think it's possible for any mere mortal such as ourselves to be completely sinless in this age.
And even if it were possible, per se... it wouldn't be of ourselves, but of God, with the help of the Holy Spirit.

What are your thoughts on this?

-Sorin

[Kat]

Hi Sorin,

Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

You have to consider where Paul is coming from in making this statement.  The verses just before tell us what his phrase "ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin" means.

Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

And you can see what he means by "dead to sin"  in these verses also.

Rom 6:12  Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That is what I believe he is explaining here, that 'before' we received grace through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we "were servants to sin."

Rom 6:20  For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Rom 6:22  But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

What Paul is saying in these chapters is sin had reigned, but now with Christ indwelling it "shall not have dominion over you" and you are "dead indeed unto sin."

Rom 5:21  That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

We will not be totally free from sin while in the flesh, but we are no longer a slave to sin.  That is the way I understand what Paul is saying, I hope this helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Samson]

Hey Sorin,

                This Scripture popped into my head this morning: James. 1:12-15," Happy is the man that keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which God promised to those who continue loving him. When under trial, let no one say: I am being tried by God, For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed(literally-being baited on) by his desire. Then THE DESIRE WHEN IT HAS BECOME FERTILE, GIVES BIRTH TO SIN, IN TURN, SIN, WHEN IT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED, BRINGS FORTH DEATH." I thought that this Scripture indirectly tied into the discussion. Some of this Scripture seems to precede the desire to stop sinning, after we have struggled so long with sin and learning from experiencing these trials set before us for our disiplining. Ray mentioned somewhere in one of his E-mails about the difference between LIVING A LIFE OF SIN(THE PATTERN OF SIN) VERSES AN OCCASIONAL SIN WE ALL MAKE THE REST OF OUR LIVES.

                              Hope this might help, Samson.

[Kat]

Hi Sorin,

I was reading the 2007 Nashville Conference 'Who And What Is Jesus? & Who Is His Father?' and I came across this section that I think will help in this discussion.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg35928.html#msg35928

Now, so you except this Christ, you say, ‘alright I believe.’  ‘Maybe I don’t believe as good as I could, but I believe.’  ‘I’m going that way, you’re the Man, Jesus.’ 
“There is no more condemnation for those in Jesus Christ.” 
That’s where you are.  Except there is one escape clause.  Paul said, unless you are faking it, unless you are just a total fraud.  But if you do believe in Jesus, if you do in your heart say yes, I do I really do.  Then this is your lot in life.
 
Rom 8:1  “There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.”

None!  There is no condemnation in you!  None.  ‘Well  surely some of the sins.‘  None.  ‘But I’m not as good as you are Ray.’   None, there is no condemnation in you.
This idea that God beats you to death with His wrath and anger and indignation until the day you die, is Satanic heresy.   “…no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.”  NONE! 

Rom 8:4  “…who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

‘Oh Ray, now you blew it, you see I still do walk after the flesh sometimes.’  But where do you want to walk?  ‘Well I want to walk after the spirit.’  Well, you’re back in.

Rom 8:2  “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
v. 3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:” 
v. 4  that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
v. 5  “For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh;”

Now if you find yourself minding the things of the flesh, you need to pray to God and cry out to help you and save you from that situation.  You say this is not me, God, I don’t want to go here.  I don’t want to do this, but my flesh is pulling me and I war, I need help, I need reinforcements.  And you cry out to God and that humbles you.  Because you see that you can’t do it.  If you could do it, then you would become self sufficient, and you wouldn’t need God.  He will always Make you dependant on Him.
Jesus always prayed.  Why?  He’s the Son of God!  What did He need to pray for?  Because He knew, if the Father didn’t do it,  then it wouldn’t be done.  It’s as simple as that. 

Rom 8:6  “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be Spiritually minded is life and peace:
v. 7  because the carnal is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:”
v.8  “and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

So those that are in the flesh, they can not please God.

Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
v. 10  And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.
v. 11  But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall also quicken(or bring to life) your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.
v. 18  For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
v. 21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.

This is the Word of God.  He put us in these bodies that want to sin and follow after lustful, stupid, sensual, fun, fuzzy things.  But if in your heart and mind you don’t want that anymore, not that you don’t want, but you don’t want to want it.  And so you cry out to God and say, ‘I don’t want to want it.’  And then God is your Father, He’ll come to your rescue.  Just like any Father would come to any child’s rescue, when he cries out to him.

Rom 8:26  “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not how to pray as we ought…”

Or as according to what must be, you know.  What is absolutely what is God’s plan, that can not be deviated from.  We don’t always know what that is.  But God’s spirit helps us to pray, so we will pray in accordance with what needs to be God’s plan and God’s will/purpose fulfilled in us. 

Rom 8:27  and He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because He maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
v. 28  And we know that all things work together for the good to them that love God,  to them that are called according to His purpose.

In verse 28 it should read God works all things together.

Rom 8:30  “Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, the He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.”

Now we are coming back to the same thing from verse one.

Rom 8:31  What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?”
 
Well, is God for us?  Well yea, He’s for those He’s calling according to His purpose and plan.  But, I don’t know if everyone sitting in here is in that category.  But I’ll tell you what, if you are not in that category, you’re probably not to concerned about it.  That’s what I tell everybody. 
--------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Robin]

Hey Sorin,

My struggle with sin is the very thing that caused me to hunger and thirst for the truth. I've thanked God many times for all these things he has used to drag me to him. If I had been able to free myself I believe I would still be in the church listening to lies.

I stuggle many times with the questions you are asking. Right in the middle of that struggle God gave me this promise.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.

 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


Psalm 119 brings me comfort.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20119;&version=50;

[lilitalienboi16]

You guys seem to be makeing this complicated, lol.

Sorin this is how i understand it.

We will never be SINLESS in this life, BUT WE CAN come to a point where SIN NO LONGER REIGNS over us. We can only achieve perfection through Christ when we are born again into the kingdom of God as Sons and daughters. For now however we are being spiritual concieved, begotton from on high through God's spirit which is a downpayment a promise from God that one day we shall be fully purchased and born of Him.

Paul was not sinless, but he did come to a point in his life where sin no longer reigned over him because of Christ Jesus.

I hope this helps.

God bless,

Alex

[gmik]

Hi all,

Is there any point to praying for any of this??  I mean if we are still sinning and struggling, then it is God's Will, so why all the angst??

Really, is there any point in praying???  I don't know what to make of it anymore- like the deeper I get the more confused I get???

(I get cranky in March, its a law for teachers!!)

[phazel]

Actually,  when you feel there is no point,  that is intended,  people will still be inspired to pray regardless of what their own will might want to say.

Proverbs 16:9 "A man deviseth a way in his heart, but God directs his feet"


So when you think there is no point to pray, you will at some point pray no matter what you just said.

[Kat]

Hi Gena,

Well I guess we need to struggle with sin, so that we know we are helpless to fight sin ourselves.  And I guess we need to pray, because wouldn't that be an act of exhibiting that God is sovereign and where our help comes from.

Here are a few emails I found on prayer that I think can help.

http://bible-truths.com/emails.html#whypray ------------------------

 I realize that this takes a little thought. I have personally thought about all the possible implications of God's Sovereignty and our lack of free will, for thousands and thousands of hours.

Your question is a logical one. If God is going to do exactly what He has predetermined to do, in every and all situations, then our prayers will CHANGE NOTHING!  Right? WRONG!

But HOW CAN THAT BE? That's a contradiction of logic, isn't it? No, it is not. Here is the answer: God not only brings about the result which He always has in mind for every situation in life, and in every situation in the history of the world, but He ALSO BRINGS ABOUT THE MEANS BY WHICH THAT RESULT IS ACCOMPLISHED!

Therefore, nothing is accomplished AT ALL, unless God brings about the MEANS of accomplishing it.

Example:  When Paul was sailing on a ship to Rome, they ran into a terrible storm. It appeared that all would be lost. An angel appeared in the night to Paul and told him that not one hair of anyone's head would be harmed, but that all had to STAY ON THE SHIP!   Some attempted to depart from the ship. Paul told them that if ever they should not stay on the ship, they would DIE! Now then, how could the possibly "die" when an angel of the Lord told Paul that NO ONE WOULD DIE? A contradiction? Absolutely not.

Since God had already committed Himself to SAVING EVERYONE, He also made sure that the instructions needed to accomplish that WERE FOLLOWED PRECISELY! And so those men CAME BACK ON THE SHIP, and they were ALL SAVED JUST AS THE ANGEL TOLD PAUL!

But isn't prayer effective only if it CHANGES GOD'S MIND to do something for you that He wouldn't have done for you had you NOT prayed? Again, absolutely not. God is not a man that He should "change His mind" about anything, ever!  Now, learn something about prayer that virtually no one in all Christendom believes or understands. First, let's look at Romans 8:26.

From the King James: 

"Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities, for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

This marvelous Scripture, however, does not bring out the whole truth contained in the Greek manuscripts regarding this verse, in the King James Version. Here is a better translation.

From the Concordant Literal New Testament: 

"Now, similarly, the spirit also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with WHAT MUST BE, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for us with inarticulate groanings."

"With WHAT MUST BE..."  There is the answer!  And here is the perfect application of this verse in the real world: 

"And He went a little further and fell on His face, and prayed saying, O My Father, IF it be possible, let this cup pass from Me: [but that was NOT POSSIBLE! God had already PREDETERMINED that Jesus SHOULD drink this cup, and therefore, IMMEDIATELY recanted to the prodding of the Holy Spirit and said the following...]: nevertheless not as I will, BUT AS THOU WILL ['to accord with WHAT MUST BE']." 

Then Jesus prayed again, WITHOUT asking God to take the cup from Him: 

"He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O My Father, if this cup may NOT pass away from Me, except I drink it, THY WILL BE DONE" (Matt. 26:39 & 42).

Clearly Jesus was CAUSED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT to pray "in accord with WHAT MUST BE."

And the same thing that goes for prayer goes for EVERYTHING in our lives. It will always be according to God's preordained intention. That is not to say that things do not got AGAINST HIS WILL, they often do. But... BUT, it is also often God's intention that we DO GO AGAINST HIS STATED WILL. Many times it is God INTENTION that humanity goes AGAINST HIS WILL. In Romans 9:19 were it says, "For who has resisted His WILL?" it should be translated: "For who has resisted His INTENTION." This is a different Greek word from what is normally translated "will."

People also often ask why I do what I do on our web site in teaching people the Truths of God, if God is going to save everyone anyway. Again, the answer is simple: This is HOW God brings about the salvation of many people. By teaching and preaching. He doesn't have to do it this way, but He has CHOSEN to do it this way.  Hence we read:

"For after that in the  wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING to save them that believe" (I Cor. 1:21).

And, of course, we know that it is again, God Himself, Who gives us the faith to believe in the first place (Eph. 2:.

Hope this helps your understanding a little better.

God be with you,
Ray

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4270.0.html ----------

SO WHAT SHOULD WE PRAY FOR?

        ANYTHING YOU DESIRE that accords with God’s will, and accords with "what must be." God had met my physical needs of food, clothing, shelter, and transportation. What I pray about are qualities godliness—love, faith, courage, knowledge & understanding, wisdom, patience, self-control, thankfulness. I am a firm believer that if we think about the right things; we will then pray about the right things. I pray all day about everything and anything that is strongly on my mind. Why shouldn’t we, seeing that God is our Father and Jesus is our Saviour and Elder Brother. God wants to hear from us. Talk to your God. A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G  IMPORTANT ENOUGH FOR YOU TO THINK ABOUT OR BE CONCERNED ABOUT IS WORTHY OF TALKING WITH GOD ABOUT."

        Granted, we need to study the Scriptures to learn more about what God's will is, but until we have perfect understanding, we pray as best we can.  Notice that in the first and last sentence of the above paragraph, I used the word "ANYTHING"!!

        God be with you,
        Ray

[Brett]

Hi,

I found two of Ray's email about like struggle sin. If you see 'Bolds' are mine:


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5854.0.html

No Believer is "perfect" and totally free from sin while he is still in this flesh.  One needs to repent of their sins and be led by God's Holy Spirit into a life where one is no longer reigned over by sin.  It doesn't mean that we are perfect and sinless. Even the Apostle John near the end of his ministry plainly stated:

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

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1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is speaking of being "born" of God. No one is "born" of God until resurrection. In this life we are only "begotten."  The words "born" and "begotten" come from the same Greek word. They didn't have two different words for the two different aspects of regeneration.  Here is a Scripture that shows we have only a spiritual "begettal" in this life:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Notice that we must wait "until" our full redemption is acquired. That happens in resurrection.  Jesus taught that when we are actually "born" of the spirit (rather than just begotten), we will be "like the wind."  None of us are "like the wind" in this life (John 3:6-8).

There are many Scriptures which speak of how we are to come out of sin, and stop sinning, even though we never achieve total perfection while we are in the flesh:

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whore monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

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http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4680.0.html

You need to read several dozen times my introduction to "The Myth of Free Will Expose" found in my Fire" series. You cannot discuss or even have an opinion on "free will" unless or until you know what it is.  Not having fee will or free choice does not mean that you do not HAVE a will or choices. Of course we have a will and of course we make millions of our own choices, but the fact of the matter is, neither is FREE to think or do anything that is not first CAUSED BY SOMETHING.  We "sin" because the pulls and trials, and tests, and temptations of our environment CAUSE our hearts to desire and commit sin, because our "deceitful hearts" (Jer. 17:17) ARE NOT FREE FROM CAUSALITY TO RESIST SIN.  The ONLY way to resist sin is by the power of God's Holy Spirit, and if it takes the power of God's Holy Spirit to resist sin, then obviously we do not have a free will which can decide to do in on its own.  It is a humbling experience to realize that God Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth is actually, and factually, and literally, more powerful than we are. NO MAN will tell God He doesn't want to repent when God tells him: "NOW is the time for you to repent, and YOU WILL REPENT"!!



How is that? Mind if I show what I found several verses for you:

Eph 2:8 
For by GRACE [chastie, discipline- Titus 2:11-12; Heb. 12:4-6] are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 
NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:10 
For we are HIS [God] workmanship , created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Tit 3:4 
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Tit 3:5 
NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Now, one more verse, it is not my words or Ray's words, it is very God's word and even from the old manuscript scripture:

Psa 51:5 
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Am I trouble? 
There are more verses of Psa 51:5. You can look up E-sword and find in 'Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge'.

Brett
 

[Deborah-Leigh]

An excellent informative edifying compassionate post Brett.