> General Discussions
Struggling With Sin
gmik:
Hi all,
Is there any point to praying for any of this?? I mean if we are still sinning and struggling, then it is God's Will, so why all the angst??
Really, is there any point in praying??? I don't know what to make of it anymore- like the deeper I get the more confused I get???
(I get cranky in March, its a law for teachers!!)
phazel:
Actually, when you feel there is no point, that is intended, people will still be inspired to pray regardless of what their own will might want to say.
Proverbs 16:9 "A man deviseth a way in his heart, but God directs his feet"
So when you think there is no point to pray, you will at some point pray no matter what you just said.
Kat:
Hi Gena,
Well I guess we need to struggle with sin, so that we know we are helpless to fight sin ourselves. And I guess we need to pray, because wouldn't that be an act of exhibiting that God is sovereign and where our help comes from.
Here are a few emails I found on prayer that I think can help.
http://bible-truths.com/emails.html#whypray ------------------------
I realize that this takes a little thought. I have personally thought about all the possible implications of God's Sovereignty and our lack of free will, for thousands and thousands of hours.
Your question is a logical one. If God is going to do exactly what He has predetermined to do, in every and all situations, then our prayers will CHANGE NOTHING! Right? WRONG!
But HOW CAN THAT BE? That's a contradiction of logic, isn't it? No, it is not. Here is the answer: God not only brings about the result which He always has in mind for every situation in life, and in every situation in the history of the world, but He ALSO BRINGS ABOUT THE MEANS BY WHICH THAT RESULT IS ACCOMPLISHED!
Therefore, nothing is accomplished AT ALL, unless God brings about the MEANS of accomplishing it.
Example: When Paul was sailing on a ship to Rome, they ran into a terrible storm. It appeared that all would be lost. An angel appeared in the night to Paul and told him that not one hair of anyone's head would be harmed, but that all had to STAY ON THE SHIP! Some attempted to depart from the ship. Paul told them that if ever they should not stay on the ship, they would DIE! Now then, how could the possibly "die" when an angel of the Lord told Paul that NO ONE WOULD DIE? A contradiction? Absolutely not.
Since God had already committed Himself to SAVING EVERYONE, He also made sure that the instructions needed to accomplish that WERE FOLLOWED PRECISELY! And so those men CAME BACK ON THE SHIP, and they were ALL SAVED JUST AS THE ANGEL TOLD PAUL!
But isn't prayer effective only if it CHANGES GOD'S MIND to do something for you that He wouldn't have done for you had you NOT prayed? Again, absolutely not. God is not a man that He should "change His mind" about anything, ever! Now, learn something about prayer that virtually no one in all Christendom believes or understands. First, let's look at Romans 8:26.
From the King James:
"Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities, for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
This marvelous Scripture, however, does not bring out the whole truth contained in the Greek manuscripts regarding this verse, in the King James Version. Here is a better translation.
From the Concordant Literal New Testament:
"Now, similarly, the spirit also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with WHAT MUST BE, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for us with inarticulate groanings."
"With WHAT MUST BE..." There is the answer! And here is the perfect application of this verse in the real world:
"And He went a little further and fell on His face, and prayed saying, O My Father, IF it be possible, let this cup pass from Me: [but that was NOT POSSIBLE! God had already PREDETERMINED that Jesus SHOULD drink this cup, and therefore, IMMEDIATELY recanted to the prodding of the Holy Spirit and said the following...]: nevertheless not as I will, BUT AS THOU WILL ['to accord with WHAT MUST BE']."
Then Jesus prayed again, WITHOUT asking God to take the cup from Him:
"He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O My Father, if this cup may NOT pass away from Me, except I drink it, THY WILL BE DONE" (Matt. 26:39 & 42).
Clearly Jesus was CAUSED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT to pray "in accord with WHAT MUST BE."
And the same thing that goes for prayer goes for EVERYTHING in our lives. It will always be according to God's preordained intention. That is not to say that things do not got AGAINST HIS WILL, they often do. But... BUT, it is also often God's intention that we DO GO AGAINST HIS STATED WILL. Many times it is God INTENTION that humanity goes AGAINST HIS WILL. In Romans 9:19 were it says, "For who has resisted His WILL?" it should be translated: "For who has resisted His INTENTION." This is a different Greek word from what is normally translated "will."
People also often ask why I do what I do on our web site in teaching people the Truths of God, if God is going to save everyone anyway. Again, the answer is simple: This is HOW God brings about the salvation of many people. By teaching and preaching. He doesn't have to do it this way, but He has CHOSEN to do it this way. Hence we read:
"For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING to save them that believe" (I Cor. 1:21).
And, of course, we know that it is again, God Himself, Who gives us the faith to believe in the first place (Eph. 2:8).
Hope this helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4270.0.html ----------
SO WHAT SHOULD WE PRAY FOR?
ANYTHING YOU DESIRE that accords with God’s will, and accords with "what must be." God had met my physical needs of food, clothing, shelter, and transportation. What I pray about are qualities godliness—love, faith, courage, knowledge & understanding, wisdom, patience, self-control, thankfulness. I am a firm believer that if we think about the right things; we will then pray about the right things. I pray all day about everything and anything that is strongly on my mind. Why shouldn’t we, seeing that God is our Father and Jesus is our Saviour and Elder Brother. God wants to hear from us. Talk to your God. A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G IMPORTANT ENOUGH FOR YOU TO THINK ABOUT OR BE CONCERNED ABOUT IS WORTHY OF TALKING WITH GOD ABOUT."
Granted, we need to study the Scriptures to learn more about what God's will is, but until we have perfect understanding, we pray as best we can. Notice that in the first and last sentence of the above paragraph, I used the word "ANYTHING"!!
God be with you,
Ray
Brett:
Hi,
I found two of Ray's email about like struggle sin. If you see 'Bolds' are mine:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5854.0.html
No Believer is "perfect" and totally free from sin while he is still in this flesh. One needs to repent of their sins and be led by God's Holy Spirit into a life where one is no longer reigned over by sin. It doesn't mean that we are perfect and sinless. Even the Apostle John near the end of his ministry plainly stated:
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
***********************************
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
This is speaking of being "born" of God. No one is "born" of God until resurrection. In this life we are only "begotten." The words "born" and "begotten" come from the same Greek word. They didn't have two different words for the two different aspects of regeneration. Here is a Scripture that shows we have only a spiritual "begettal" in this life:
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Notice that we must wait "until" our full redemption is acquired. That happens in resurrection. Jesus taught that when we are actually "born" of the spirit (rather than just begotten), we will be "like the wind." None of us are "like the wind" in this life (John 3:6-8).
There are many Scriptures which speak of how we are to come out of sin, and stop sinning, even though we never achieve total perfection while we are in the flesh:
Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whore monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
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http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4680.0.html
You need to read several dozen times my introduction to "The Myth of Free Will Expose" found in my Fire" series. You cannot discuss or even have an opinion on "free will" unless or until you know what it is. Not having fee will or free choice does not mean that you do not HAVE a will or choices. Of course we have a will and of course we make millions of our own choices, but the fact of the matter is, neither is FREE to think or do anything that is not first CAUSED BY SOMETHING. We "sin" because the pulls and trials, and tests, and temptations of our environment CAUSE our hearts to desire and commit sin, because our "deceitful hearts" (Jer. 17:17) ARE NOT FREE FROM CAUSALITY TO RESIST SIN. The ONLY way to resist sin is by the power of God's Holy Spirit, and if it takes the power of God's Holy Spirit to resist sin, then obviously we do not have a free will which can decide to do in on its own. It is a humbling experience to realize that God Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth is actually, and factually, and literally, more powerful than we are. NO MAN will tell God He doesn't want to repent when God tells him: "NOW is the time for you to repent, and YOU WILL REPENT"!!
How is that? :D Mind if I show what I found several verses for you:
Eph 2:8
For by GRACE [chastie, discipline- Titus 2:11-12; Heb. 12:4-6] are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9
NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10
For we are HIS [God] workmanship , created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Tit 3:4
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5
NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Now, one more verse, it is not my words or Ray's words, it is very God's word and even from the old manuscript scripture:
Psa 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Am I trouble? ::)
There are more verses of Psa 51:5. You can look up E-sword and find in 'Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge'. 8)
Brett ;)
Deborah-Leigh:
An excellent informative edifying compassionate post Brett. 8)
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