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Made out of things unseen.
phazel:
--- Quote from: woops on March 19, 2008, 01:30:08 PM ---So, is it safe to say that this world is spiritual? That if I don't see the spirit that is what makes it physical?
I'm apparently a confused little animal that could really use a good teacher(god I mean).
--- End quote ---
I do believe our existance is spiritual and God intends for us to see things the way we do for a reason. But here is how I have related to the progression of learning to see this transition of knowledge from physical to see it is spiritual.
If you look at the progression of scientific knowledge, the more we know, the closer we look, the more invisible it gets.
You can look at everything that appears solid and it all boils down to something unseen driving it, and holding it together. Scientists may be able to detect all kind of energy forms, might be able to predict what this does or that does. We can identify what something is to our perception and it is indeed a reality to our physical world.
Yet, there is still unseen forces that scientists cannot explain, only the reality that they are there. Atheists often argue that since we can detect these things they are not actually unseen, but they miss the point.
We may know something is there that holds different types of atoms together, but they really do not know what it is, or how it does it. I believe that to be the unseen the bible is talking about.
What the bible doesn't say is that we will NEVER know what that is.
Kat:
Hi Woops,
This can be a difficult thing to really get a good grasp on, but just keep meditating on it.
Ray gave a analogy at the 2006 Mobile conference that I think might help.
So let's think about this a little bit, who is the Father? In Him we live and breath and have our being. Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish. The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light. It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen. So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God. The bird has air in him and is flying through the air. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html
Now you see that spirit is in everything and that is how everything exist. Because God is what holds everything together.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
But for now God is putting us through a physical experience first, before He opens our eyes to the spiritual.
1Co 15:46 But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.
So we are learning from this experience of good and evil. I think we are to come to comprehend that when we sin it is harmful to us as well as those we direct it towards and so this is happening through this experience we are having in the physical. So for the few right now, at the appointed time in their life God will bring them to hate the sin that they ahave been a slave to and He will bring them to repentance. And then as He opens our eyes to the Truth of who and what Jesus Christ is, then we begin to walk after the spirit.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ray gave a Bible study on 'Worship In Spirit And Truth' this would be a really good study to see how we actually walk after the spirit.
Ray's audio 'Worship In Spirit And Truth'
http://bible-truths.com/audio/5-06-07_Part1.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/5-06-07_Part2.mp3
Transcript
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5312.0.html
mercy, peace and love
Kat
woops:
Well, at least Im making progress, I used to ask no questions at all.
All of your posts are great, I will continue to think on things, but I have to realize that he is the only one that can show me I guess, and until that happens it doesn't matter how hard I try to understand, however, one of you said that one thing the bible doesn't say is that we will never understand it, thats good news.
But I have to say that I have a better understanding of things than I used to, now I realize that all of this was created(including me), and that god makes it happen. Until the age of about twenty one I never thought about any of these things.
chuckt:
2Cr 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.
cv:
18 at our not noting what is being observed, but what is not being observed, for what is being observed is temporary, yet what is not being observed is eonian.
woops:
Ok, I have discovered something new, to me anyway(give me a break, Im trying). I am only thinking about a small portion of our reality, it's creation, and the spirit making it happen, while I think of this I am completely awe stricken, but as I think of only this I am ignoring "what" it is. As I think of creation and why or how things happen according to the spirit I should also focus on what has been created, what Im saying is while the sun was created and sheds light and it is the spirit that causes it to happen, unscientifically of course, which I truly love this aspect of things, it is a gigantic ball of fire that will burn me. I don't believe that for one second that this is amazing, wonderful, because it is quite painful. Basically isn't this what we're talking about a spiritually painful existence. I don't think that we should find this to be amazing or wonderful, at least not yet, although created and spiritual it is far from amazing or wonderful if you ask me, which according to mr. smith it should be for now. And aren't I just a beast, when I think about that I come up with the question "should I be amazed" or do I just not understand? I've said this in my previous posts on this topic, god probably knows exactly what he is doing and he probably doesn't view it the same way, wouldn't it be quite normal for him, and the only reason one would be amazed or in wonder is that they don't understand? I'm sure that god does not wonder these things or is amazed by this world, and why would everybody not know the way things work?
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