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Satan and His Angels???
truthistforjesus:
Hey people!
To answer your question without presenting confusion. Lucifer was the rebellious angel against the Son of God--Jesus Christ. Satan was his 'general' so to speak. In actuality all angels are created good. Lucifer took 1/3 of the lower forms of angels with him in the rebellion. Did Jesus speak that passage you named? It could be more of a allegoric symbolism for the people of the 1st Century...? Anyway, we will not end up in hell. Lucifer and his traitors are now under a certain kind of spiritual quarrantine ever since Christ died... They still can act, but WE have to give will to them, which some unconciously do. They cannot interfere with our life. We are enveloped with the 'Comforter'--Spirit of Truth---Spirit of Christ. Along with this gift he has freely given humanity, we also have the ministry of the angels that did NOT rebel against him. These angels cannot penetrate our minds, however, they can and do guide us as subservient servants of Christ. You see, we are supposed to work together for Christ. A house divided cannot stand. Learning Jesus' teachings about the brotherhood of man and the fatherhood of God is, in reality, the 'will of God'. This sublime understanding that Jesus had is positive proof that he is the Eternal Son. No other mortal in the flesh has never made such pronouncements, and then, actually LIVED AND ACTED them out!!! He is truely amazing!!!
Love
TFJ
Please ask more questions...
Craig:
--- Quote ---Lucifer was the rebellious angel against the Son of God
--- End quote ---
TFJ, have you read any of the bible-truths website?
Lucifer is a christian hoax http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html
I don't have the time or energy tonight to pick apart the rest of this post.
Please read www.bible-truths.com
Craig
Kat:
Hi TFJ,
I had time to bring up couple excerpts from that article, but there is much more details in the article.
What you have stated is mostly the teaching of the church. As Craig mentioned Ray's article explains what you have wrongly indicated in your post.
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html ------------------------------
ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES IN ALL CHRISTENDOM
("How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer")
Theologians have been teaching for centuries now that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give us a perfect explanation of how a perfect Lucifer changed himself into Lucifer the Devil.
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." (Isa. 14:-12-14).
"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus says the Lord God; Thou seal up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. You have been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of your tabrets and of your pipes was prepared in you in the day that you were created. You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you"
"By the multitude of your merchandise they have filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I will cast you to the ground, I will lay you before kings, and they may behold you" (Ezek. 28:12-17).
This, we are told, is a perfect description of how perfect Lucifer, a shining light bringing archangel/cherub, became Satan the Devil. Is there any truth to this theory? We will see.
This theory suits Satan just fine, and more so, it fits Christendom even ‘finer.’ With this theory (or more correctly ‘hypothesis’), Christendom has the perfect solution to how they can justifiably consign billions of humans to an eternal lake of fire. With their "free will" firmly established in their deceived minds, Christendom can now teach the world that Satan CHOSE to do evil and has not repented, and most of mankind has also CHOSEN to do evil and not repent, therefore they are all thrown into an eternal lake burning with fire, and God is not the least bit responsible.
The Church believes it has accomplished a most marvelous thing: they have gotten God off the hook of responsibility for all of the sickness, disease, pain, suffering, sin, evil, terrorism, and death in the world. You see, without free will, God could never know who is for Him and who is against Him—it’s the only way, the only "fair" way, and God is fair and God is good. Doesn’t this make good carnal sense, and everyone is happy? It is rank heresy at the highest level; that is what it is!
Prepare yourself for a revelation: Satan was never perfect and then decided by his phantom free will to become a devil, neither has a single human started out perfect and then decided by his free will to become a sinner! Now I am well aware of the fact that people are deceived about these things, as was I. But the Scriptural truth of these matters will set us free from centuries of unscriptural traditions. The problem with this "Lucifer fell" theory is twofold: poor translation and poor interpretation. Let’s go through it.
First Isaiah 14. To whom is God addressing Himself in these verses we quoted above?
"That you shall take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON..." (Ver. 4)
God is speaking of and to and about, "the King of Babylon," not Lucifer, not Satan, not a cherub. And God tells us the end of this man’s reign:
"Your pomp is brought down to the grave [Satan never died or was put in a grave], and the noise of your viols [harps or lutes]: the worm [or maggots] is spread under you [can maggots eat a spirit body], and the worms cover you" (Ver. 11).
But is not this "Lucifer" of verse 14 not Satan the Devil?
v
v
LUCIFER IS A CHRISTIAN HOAX
Now back to Isa. 14. With "Lucifer" out of the way, let’s read a couple versions other than the KJV and see how they dealt with this strange word ell which comes to us by way of the Greek Septuagint and the Latin Vulgate:
"How you are fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!" You are hacked down to the earth, destroyer of nations" (New International Version)
"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! (New Revised Standard Version)
There is absolutely no reason to capitalize "day," "star," or "dawn" in this last version.
Here is how the Concordant Literal Old Testament translates this verse by following the Hebrew Manuscripts rather than the Catholic Latin Bible:
"How you have fallen from the heavens! Howl, son of the dawn! You are hacked down to the earth, defeater of all nations."
It is the king of Babylon who elevated himself to high heaven in the heavens of his own mind, and it is the same king of Babylon who has "fallen from the heavens," and it is the same king of Babylon who is "hacked down to the earth," and it is the same king of Babylon who was the "defeater of all nations," and not a "perfect Satan."
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mercy, peacve and love
Kat
Dante:
Thanks again everyone!! :)
Just so everyone knows where I am at, I know that Satan is not a Fallen Angel, but a Liar from the beginning.
And even thought truthistforjesus was trying to be helpful, he or she (Sorry Truthistforjesus, but you don't specify guy or gal), JUST didn't get to that TRUTH PART YET.
I PRAY that Truthistforjesus, will get to that soon. It is very, very important for he or she to get that down pat!
**********************
But, on to the matter at hand.
All I need now is a couple of verses that show that God calls HUMANS, Messengers or Angels or it's equivalent.
As Suzie mentioned the word "aggelos" in the Greek.
Does anyone have, either in Greek or Hebrew, a verse that shows beyond a drought that Messenger CAN AND IS A HUMAN.
It would be of much help to lay this to rest in my mind.
I hope it is not to much trouble.
I am not asking for anyone to search for me, but if you happen to be more knowledgeable on the subject than I, and have a couple of VERSES LAYING AROUND, and your not using them for anything ;D, could you just kind of copy and paste them here.
I would be MUCH appreciated.
Thanks everyone.
Hope everyone had a Happy Easter or should I say: enjoyed celebrating the RISEN CHRIST, Yesterday.
God's Love to you all.
And thanks again for ALL your help.
Dante
hillsbororiver:
Hi Dante,
Here we have Christ Himself referring to John The Baptist;
Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger32 before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.
You can also find two other witnesses to this in Mark 1:2 and Luke 7:27.
His Peace to you,
Joe
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