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Church Services
Dave in Tenn:
What a great thread...just for dragging it back up, I'm appreciative.
I don't have any advice for you, but I'll tell you a story.
A few years ago I was in hospital...sort of a ward setting ICU instead of a private room, full of beeping machines and other noises common in hospitals. I was in pretty bad shape, but I remember so well lying there not too far from dead and hearing the various machines beeping, some louder as they were closer, and some more quiet. Pretty soon a pattern started emerging...melody, rythm, a sense of timing, harmonies in thirds and fifths. I smiled and started 'improvising', filling in the beat with a tap to my leg or just an imagined sound. The nurses rustled outside, from time a time a curtain was pulled that gave a little 'zhing' sound. Then, God bless whoever it was, someone started to moan. Then it turned into blues.
I don't guess it lasted all that long, but laying there between death and life I was filled up with joy. It was the first time I felt human again since getting wheeled into the place. I'm surely not the musician you are, but like that auto mechanic earlier in the thread, I know what it is you're talking about.
I'm so glad now that Jesus is Lord.
musicman:
Great story Dave. I hope you don't have to go through all of that again. The music is even better without the hospital bed.
Terry:
Lake Of Fire Xlll
What Happened to The Church That Jesus Built
Not teaching now, just was reading this and thought it pertained to this thread,
JESUS GOES TO CHURCH
Perhaps you never thought of Jesus going to Church, but He did. The first time that something is mentioned in Scripture, it is often very instructive. Although it was the habit of Jesus to attend local synagogues during His life, the first time the Scriptures mention Jesus going to the temple as a adult is in Matt. 21:12:
"And they came to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And He taught, saying unto them, ‘Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the House of Prayer? But ye have made it a DEN OF THIEVES [Gk: ‘burglars’ cave’].’ And the SCRIBES and CHIEF PRIESTS heard it, and sought how they might DESTROY HIM: for they feared Him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine" (Mark 11:15-18).
What a revelation of the church of God we have in these three verses!
Jesus was so angry with the leaders at the temple for turning it into a money-making flea market, that he:
"cast out them that sold and bought in the temple"
"overthrew the tables of the moneychangers and seats of them that sold doves"
"suffered no one to carry vessels [of merchandise] through the temple"
Jesus said that they "made the House of Prayer a DEN OF THIEVES"!
Say, did you notice that they were buying and selling "…in the Temple?" Do you think that just maybe this has anything to do with the fact that,
"…NO MAN might BUY OR SELL, save he that had the MARK OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME" (Rev. 13:17)?
We will cover the Mark of the Beast in a later installment.
But this is all ancient history, isn’t it? The modern Church of God has not been turned into a "den of thieves" has it? Were the High priests and Scribes, going against the law of either their own religious beliefs or of Rome? No. No, they weren’t. So they were not "thieves" according to the Church or the Roman government. But were they thieves, nonetheless? Yes, they were, Jesus Christ SAID THEY WERE THIEVES, a whole "DEN OF THIEVES"!
At least the modern Church of God is not a "den of thieves," is it? I’m sure not all; you can be the judge:
One of the major factors in the Reformation was the disdain over the practice of the Church selling INDULGENCES. The American Heritage College Dictionary, "indulgence n. 6. Roman Catholic Church The remission of temporal punishment still due for a sin that has been sacramentally absolved."
Make no mistake about it:
"For the love of money is the [Gk. ‘a’] root of all evil" (I Tim. 6:10).
Before the Reformation, it was thought by some that one could practically "buy" one’s salvation.
Jesus "CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple." Is there, "buying and selling" going on in the Church today? Excuse me…does a cat have a tail?
Now don’t think that I am against money. Jesus Himself used money in his ministry (but he never sold in the temple, neither did He ever collect a penny in tithe money).
I couldn’t count the number of e-mails I have received in response to my article on tithing being unscriptural under the new covenant, in which they ask how they should pay their church utility bill if the people don’t tithe? I tell them to pay it with a check backed by money in the bank. All those interested in paying the utility bill should contribute voluntary offerings of money for that expense. This is not difficult. But no one under the New Covenant is obligated by law or conscience to pay ten percent of their salaries to a church! People under the Old Covenant, likewise, were not under law to pay ten percent of their salaries to the Levites. And, Yes, they did have money back then.
UNSCRUPULOUS PEDDLERS OF GOD’S WORD
After Jesus THREW OUT those who "bought and sold" in the temple, did they ever return? Not only did they return to the temple after Christ’s resurrection, but they also came into the very Church, which Jesus said HE WOULD BUILD. The whole temple system in Jerusalem was so utterly corrupt that they corrupted the people of Jerusalem and Judea as well.
In and around 70 AD the armies of Titus surrounded Jerusalem and there was an awful slaughter. You can read of these horrible events in the writings of Josephus. But even before the temple with its corrupt religious system was demolished, it had already spread its ugly tentacles into the Church which Jesus built.
Terry
Roy Martin:
Terry, that's what I call shooting straight or not holding back any punches.
Musicman, the money you were paid came from people that were scammed through tithing.
The music is about worship and praise to God. It cant be compared to doing electrical work or anything in that category.
No judgment here just opinion as you asked.
Peace
Roy
Vangie:
Roy, I understand what you mean about the money coming from the blind tithers, but I must beg to differ regarding Musicman's services not being comparable to electrical work, etc. He's a musician, and making music is how he earns/supplements his living. (It's a tough one, which was the whole point of him starting this thread back when.) My husband has bid on church jobs on the construction side of life; if he gets the jobs, wouldn't his pay come from the scammed tithers also? At this point, we're in no position to turn down any income, if you know what I mean.
Also, I think Musicman might be in a kind of "outside looking in" position that we can't really relate with in regards to actually and physically seeing Babylon in action. Might even explain his oddball comments here on the forum. ::) ;D ;D I kill me.
Hope this comes across as humorous and positive as I'm meaning it. I'll be the first to admit that my sense of humor doesn't translate well in person sometimes, much less via the keyboard; but it's all meant in love. :)
In Christ,
Vangie
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