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Author Topic: US economy  (Read 9228 times)

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Stevernator

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US economy
« on: March 26, 2008, 06:24:30 AM »

Hi everyone,
I was wondering if any of you are following the US economy right now.
I've been reading some troubling stuff on the net.
Stuff about how the federal reserve has increased the money supply by printing money (to fund the Iraq war etc)
which leads to inflation. Also as you may know banks have been lending ARM (adjustable rate mortgages)
 to people. This lets people start with a low interest rate but then later it rises and people default and lose
their homes. Also, private banks sell mortgage backed securities on the market from these ARM's and make profit on it.
This is why the fed keeps lowering interest rates to combat the credit crunch. Also, Americans are in debt personally
and as a nation.

Also, the Fed's policies have been leading to the weakening of the dollar which decreases our purchasing power worldwide.
This has also led to some foreign countries (such as Iran) refusing to do business in the dollar.
These factors can lead to hyperinflation and possible recession or worse in the future. Since the dollar is just paper
people could lose confidence in it someday.
 Some people have recommended buying gold, silver or commodities. (gold has gone from about $600/oz to $1000).
 Many of the elite in the government are also part of CFR which is sort of secretive.
I don't want to sound pessimistic but I am just wondering how much longer America can go on like this.

With rapid globalization I wonder if we are going to see prophecy unfold, what do you guys think?
Lately I have been trying to discern the times.
I do not know much so don't take my word for it though.
Please let me know what you guys think about these sorts of issues. Thanks!

God bless,
Steve
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Martinez

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Re: US economy
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 07:47:38 AM »

Hey there Steve!

I've sort of been watching the stockmarket with intrest to see what's happening as well.
I do not know anything about the stockmarket other than if stocks are plummeting, it ain't good!

If America goes, financially speaking, what does that mean for the rest of the world?
America is the financial centre of the world is it not?

I assume you are talking about prophecies unfolding being a certain, Babylon the great has fallen prophecy?

Whatever happens, physically, just remember that the real prophecy is being fulfilled spiritually and the physical is only there to fool mainstream Christians.

Still very interesting to see prophecy fulfilled even if it is only outwardly.


Martinez.
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joyful1

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Re: US economy
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 08:26:50 AM »

:) Hey guys! It's hard not to look at these events as "troubling" but remember;

PROVERBS 23:5
"Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for (riches) certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven."

In my 50 years....one thing has remained constant: money takes flight--
don't even worry about your needs--He will provide what you need according to His wisdom...
overcoming the tendency to worry....now that is the task at hand!
Peace brothers!
Joyce :)
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Stevernator

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Re: US economy
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 09:10:20 AM »

Thanks Joyce,
What a great reminder you have said.

Mat 6:20 Yet hoard for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor corrosion are causing them to disappear, and where thieves are not tunneling nor stealing;

Christ is our true treasure and should always be our highest pursuit.

Even still, I think it would be wise to be aware and be prepared just in case.
Kind of like wearing a seatbelt, ya know?
Martinez, not sure what it would mean for rest of the world, and yeah I was kind of thinking along that line you said.
I will be trying to discern.
Luk 12:56 ...The aspect of the sky and the earth you are aware how to be testing, yet this era you are not aware how to be testing!

God Bless,
Steve
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hillsbororiver

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Re: US economy
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 10:18:09 AM »

It my lifetime I have seen this pattern repeat itself in our economy more than once. I am not saying that there is absolutely no chance that things could fall in the tank but as the major media outlets huff and puff doom and gloom they fail to disclose that things have been much worse in recent history as markets, interest rates and prices adjust to circumstances in our present reality.

The following is a grain of salt to take with the media messages of impending catastrophe;


http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2004/el2004-35.html

From 1964 to 1984—the consumer price index (CPI) and the "core" CPI, which excludes the volatile food and energy components. Over the first fifteen years in the figure, inflation in the United States ratcheted upwards, averaging 2.6% per year from 1964 to 1968, 5% from 1969 to 1973, and 8% from 1974 to 1978. Then, in the first nine months of 1979, average annual inflation jumped to 10.75%. This dramatic rise was partially due to a new round of oil price increases. But even the core CPI, which excludes the volatile food and energy components, averaged a 9.4% annual rate.

Inflation at this high level during peacetime was unprecedented in American history. And it produced a variety of policies to tame it, including President Nixon's wage and price controls, responsible for some of the temporary decline in inflation in 1971 and 1972, and President Ford's WIN (for "Whip Inflation Now") buttons, introduced in 1974.

While inflation was unusually high in 1979, unemployment was not. The United States had experienced a sharp recession in 1974 and 1975, with the unemployment rate reaching a peak of 9% in May 1975 and then declining steadily over the next four years. The unemployment rate averaged 5.8% during the first nine months of 1979. Thus, entering the fall of 1979, unemployment was slightly above its average over the previous fifteen years while inflation was at a troublingly high level.
 
http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Americas/United-States-ECONOMY.html

Inflation has not been as significant factor in the US economy in the 1990s as it was in the 1970s and 1980s. The US inflation rate tends to be lower than that of the majority of industrialized nations. For the period 1970–78, for example, consumer prices increased by an annual average of 6.7%, less than in every other Western country except Austria, Luxembourg, Switzerland, and West Germany, and well below the price increase in Japan. The double-digit inflation of 1979–81 came as a rude shock to most Americans, with economists and politicians variously blaming international oil price rises, federal monetary policies, and US government spending.

Peace,

Joe


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joyful1

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Re: US economy
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 11:50:46 AM »

Even still, I think it would be wise to be aware and be prepared just in case.
Kind of like wearing a seatbelt, ya know?

;) I hear ya bro! and yes, I definitely wear seat belts, lock my car and buy  insurance....because, unless you're a prophet, you have no idea what tomorrow will bring...I'm just saying its a good idea, especially for you young folks who have so much responsibility now, to resolve within yourselves that you are not going to let it worry you....lock your car and walk away. Its a sensible thing to do. Worrying about every little bump in the road will only wear out your adrenaline gland prematurely! :)

God's peace be to you and yours!
Joyce :)

Matthew 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

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Chuck

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Re: US economy
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2008, 06:33:33 PM »

What concerns me as much as anything is the price of gasoline.  I believe the continued elevation of fuel prices will cause increases in food, trash pick up, delivery of products, etc.  Rhetorical question......how will someone making minimum wage afford to drive to work when the price of gas nearly doubles in a 12 month period?  Of course the fuel companies continue to make record profits......nearly as much as Joyce Meyer's each year!   ;D

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gmik

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Re: US economy
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2008, 10:30:31 PM »

Ha!!! ;D
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Robin

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Re: US economy
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2008, 03:45:41 AM »

This is the 3rd time I've seen this happen. 4 years ago I told everyone it was time to buy gold. I never have the money to do it though.

It seems there is always a killing in the real estate market. Then it slows down and the bottom falls out. Then gold increases and gasoline goes sky high or there is a gasoline shortage. Then there is a long recovery period and it happens all over again.

The difference this time are the bad loans and so many people losing their homes because of it. Even the lenders are losing their homes because they were forced out of business.

I read that it is good to have small gold coins on hand if something does happen. The article said it would be the only way to purchase anything. I never have money to do that either though so I guess I'll just go with God's plan.
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carol v

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Re: US economy
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2008, 12:16:40 PM »

I'm a stock trader so watching it everyday. The Fed makes everything worse. It drives me crazy that we are bailing out the banks who set this in motion. Alan Greenspan was particularly guilty in this subprime fiasco and isn't it convenient that he decided to "retire" about 2 months before the...uh-hum...stuff hit the fan.

The deflation of the dollar is a huge problem. We also let lobbyists run the country. Let's take the corn growers as an example. First they get billions in subsidies which enable them to invent and produce megatons of that wonderful substance known as high fructose corn syrup making the nation fat as pigs on vacation. NOW, which drives me nuts, they have forced our President to make one of the stupidest decisions ever known by man -- to mandate the increase of Ethanol as fuel for our cars. Truly, ethanol is about the stupidest idea man has ever had and could be the famine for us all. And the President has actually mandated this as law. We need to move the first primary out of Iowa.

Renewables should be air and sun but never plants of any kind. Even the switchgrass and mesquite trees will change the ecosystem of the entire planet. And burning our food supply in our cars...dumb. They are stripping the rainforests even faster than usual to plant more corn and soybeans. Bye bye water. Say goodbye to land and crop rotation. Hello more toxins in the air with fewer forests, trees etc. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Can you tell this bugs me :-\ The high food prices can be laid squarely on the door of this stupid "renewable" strategy.

If we don't have more nucleur power plants for electricity soon the lights are going to go out. It's clean, efficient and safe. France has been almost 100% nucleur for a decade now. Except for Chernobyl which had no safety standards and was very poorly constructed, there has been no one killed at all by nucleur power.

Oh...I really just wanted to say that buying small silver coins is always a good idea. Anything before 1964 is silver. Don't save anything after that. Wish I had all those mercury dimes I took for granted.

I appreciate all the great comments with scripture. Not my focus on this post but as we worry about our kids and our own futures it is truly the most glorious thing to know that even the bad stuff is God's plan and has a glorious purpose.

Carol

Whew...I feel better now ;)
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joyful1

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Re: US economy
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2008, 01:07:52 PM »

:D Hi Carol!
Glad you feel better! heheheh!
I have a question or two, though....you said that renewables should be air and sun but never any kind of plant....can you explain to me ( a really stupid old woman ) what you mean by that? Renewable energy (constant supply?), air and sun, windmills and solar panels? Ethanol can be produced from corn, correct? How did you get into stock trading?
Joyce :)
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carol v

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Re: US economy
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2008, 01:46:37 PM »

Hi Joyce, I started stock trading by first being an investor. Then I just gradually started doing it full time. I only trade for myself, not others. I'm not licensed.

The use of our land and water to produce corn to burn in our cars is the main reason that the cost of food has sky-rocketed lately. The devaluation of the dollar also has an affect. Growing corn is much more profitable than growing lettuce or wheat so land and resources once devoted to these crops are now growing gasoline. Plus the price of corn has so greatly increased that other commodities dependent on it, like cows, have also gone up. The price of meat and dairy is also skyrocketing.

I took the kids to Pizza Hut last week and had to get out a microscope to find the cheese. I feel sorry for the pizza businesses these days -- trying to keep the costs to what people think a pizza should be while the cost of wheat flour and cheese is astronomical.

We are using our precious water, stripping our forests and other crops for the land and decreasing the amount of beneficial plants on the planet that keep the toxins out of the air and our ecosystem in balance -- all to burn fuel in our cars. Ethanol is bad ecologically and economically. No one will want to grow anything else but corn so crop rotation will also go out the window.

Using switchgrass and mesquite trees instead of corn may sound like a good idea but it will also be hugely detrimental to our planet. These plants have a purpose.

If we truly start using the "mandated" amount of ethanol that the President has signed into law by 2025 (I think)...then famine will hit the planet unlike ever before. Only rich people will be able to afford food. We won't be able to find fresh water either.

Then...there is also the pesticides and fertilizers that this huge expanse of corn fields will place into the aquifers. The water we do have will be even more polluted than it is now.

The very sad fact about the entire thing is that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than the ethanol itself. Irony is alive and well on planet earth. I'm not quite sure the exact percentage but one gallon of ethanol only provides 75% of the energy of a gallon of gas.

The corn growers have one of the strongest lobby groups in Washington and along with Big Pharma. The primary in Iowa is a big effect. Every politician on television was touting the benefits of ethanol going into Iowa but it's a huge hoax and a very, very dangerous road to travel down.

The only bigger hoax I can think off offhand is that the poison known as flouride should be anywhere close to our kids, our mouths or in our water supply. Flouride is poison, does nothing for your teeth and was railroaded into American consciousness by one of the biggest big business/government hoaxes ever known...but now I'm getting off the subject...as usual!

Carol

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Dennis Vogel

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Re: US economy
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2008, 02:44:14 PM »

I think the biggest reason for everything going up in the US is the cost of the war. The government is printing money as fast as it can. The dollar is constantly loosing value. That's why oil is so high. A dollar does not buy as much so the oil producers raise the price of a barrel of oil per US dollars. Other countries whose currency has risen against the dollar are not hurting as much.

I've said for years that turning food into fuel is immoral. And I've heard that it takes as much energy to make a gallon of Ethanol as it does to product it. Not exactly smart.

Just my opinion.

Dennis
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Martinez

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Re: US economy
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2008, 07:49:25 PM »


When I first heard that they were turning corn into ethanol I thought that it was the stupidest thing that I had ever heard!

Me and My wife have a bit of a hedge around us at the moment because we have been given a place to live for only $120 AU a week which is pretty much unheard of, even around here. The property we live on is on 80 acre's and it's half way up a mountain with a very hairy drive way, so it's pretty hard to get to, so it's off the beaten track and then some!
We are going to start a vegi garden because the cost of living is and is going thru the roof here. also, there are groups of people who are into alternative living around here so their all into the whole localization thing. I think that anyone who has been called out to be chosen is going to be looked after until the time is right, and even those who won't make into the first Resurrection because some of us have to be Judas.

I know things have looked grim before as far as the economy and famine and everything is concerned, but the fact that God is calling out His elect in such big numbers should tell you that this time is different.

Bush might just be the stupidest man on the planet right now, but it's an appointed stupidity!

This discussion brings to mind a verse.

Rev 6:6  And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A choenix of wheat for a denarius, and three choenixes of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.
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Beloved

  • Guest
Re: US economy
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2008, 08:34:34 PM »

This is all absurd...I heard that they sold a corn flake on Ebay for $2000.   It was shaped like Illinoise...some traveling oddity show bought it...is the world insane     ::)

The announcer then started talking about the prices of the toast with jesus and other religious items that bring even more money, these people have lost some of their frontal lobes.


Forget stocks.... I am going out to buy a box of corn flakes, I will then at least I will be able to eat my losses.

Beloved
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hillsbororiver

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Re: US economy
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2008, 08:47:15 PM »

This may not go over real well but it is something I do feel very strongly about and believe that it is incumbant on me to relate this, not for any political reasons, I am no longer a "political animal" (or right winged beast).  ;)

The important thing is that we have very clear instructions on how to behave in accordance to our country's laws and leaders, yes, it goes against our natural grain but isn't just about everything when we begin to truly seek pleasing Him?

Since I have been reading the articles on Bible Truths I have to say that the biggest, most powerful and profound thing I have learned is "the beast is me."

In the 30+ years prior to that discovery I was very convinced and content that the beast, antichrist and all my enemies (human & spirit) were "out there somewhere." That at some future point there would be this epic panoramic Armageddon with a literal man, in a literal 3rd temple proclaiming he is god and the world is spinning into oblivion as his murderous passion and frenzy know no limits the hoards of nations and peoples bow in reverence to him. As Ray might say; "What a crock."

My biggest enemy is me.

Looking at others as scapegoats because I may not agree with what I perceive to be bad decisions or choices is no longer a heavy yolk for me, it is not my call or responsibility to second guess, God is sovereign. God is in control and if we presume to say we know better without any facts to substantiate, without the knowledge of what is truly going on behind the scenes how can I be so presumptuous to say "I know better."


Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
 
Rom 13:2  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

Pe 2:13  Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1Pe 2:17  Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

1Ti 2:1  I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
 
1Ti 2:2  For kings and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
 
1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
 
Tit 3:1  Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

This is not to say we compromise the direct testimony of our Lord;

Act 4:18  And they called them and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
 
Act 4:19  But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
 
Act 4:20  For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

 

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Stevernator

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Re: US economy
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2008, 11:10:38 PM »

Quote
This may not go over real well but it is something I do feel very strongly about and believe that it is incumbant on me to relate this, not for any political reasons, I am no longer a "political animal" (or right winged beast). 

The important thing is that we have very clear instructions on how to behave in accordance to our country's laws and leaders, yes, it goes against our natural grain but isn't just about everything when we begin to truly seek pleasing Him?

Since I have been reading the articles on Bible Truths I have to say that the biggest, most powerful and profound thing I have learned is "the beast is me."

In the 30+ years prior to that discovery I was very convinced and content that the beast, antichrist and all my enemies (human & spirit) were "out there somewhere." That at some future point there would be this epic panoramic Armageddon with a literal man, in a literal 3rd temple proclaiming he is god and the world is spinning into oblivion as his murderous passion and frenzy know no limits the hoards of nations and peoples bow in reverence to him. As Ray might say; "What a crock."

My biggest enemy is me.

Looking at others as scapegoats because I may not agree with what I perceive to be bad decisions or choices is no longer a heavy yolk for me, it is not my call or responsibility to second guess, God is sovereign. God is in control and if we presume to say we know better without any facts to substantiate, without the knowledge of what is truly going on behind the scenes how can I be so presumptuous to say "I know better."

Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
 
Rom 13:2  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

Pe 2:13  Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1Pe 2:17  Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

1Ti 2:1  I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
 
1Ti 2:2  For kings and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
 
1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
 
Tit 3:1  Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

This is not to say we compromise the direct testimony of our Lord;

Act 4:18  And they called them and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
 
Act 4:19  But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
 
Act 4:20  For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Hi Joe,
Thanks for that great reminder. I have a sincere question. I'm not asking this to make a point but I really would like to know.
Should we protest or speak out if one in authority is abusing the rights of others?
Jesus spoke out against the Pharisees for being hypocritical and burdensome to others.

So I guess I am curious if we should speak out against leaders on matters such as abortion, war, genocide etc.
According to scripture

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except under God. Now those which are, have been set under God,
Rom 13:2 so that he who is resisting an authority has withstood God's mandate. Now those who have withstood, will be getting judgment for themselves,
Rom 13:3 for magistrates are not a fear to the good act, but to the evil. Now you do not want to be fearing the authority. Do good, and you will be having applause from it."
Rom 13:4 For it is God's servant for your good. Now if you should be doing evil, fear, for not feignedly is it wearing the sword. For it is God's servant, an avenger for indignation to him who is committing evil."
Rom 13:5 Wherefore it is necessary to be subject, not only because of indignation, but also because of conscience."

On the other hand we can expect to suffer persecution for the sake of righteousness. I know we should be bold and never compromise the law of God and not disobey law of man unless it contradicts the law of God.

So my question is, should we protest our leaders for injustice?
My thought is that we should speak against wickedness in general and talk about the gospel.

Thanks,
Steve
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musicman

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Re: US economy
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2008, 03:45:18 AM »

I think the biggest reason for everything going up in the US is the cost of the war. The government is printing money as fast as it can. The dollar is constantly loosing value. That's why oil is so high. A dollar does not buy as much so the oil producers raise the price of a barrel of oil per US dollars. Other countries whose currency has risen against the dollar are not hurting as much.

I've said for years that turning food into fuel is immoral. And I've heard that it takes as much energy to make a gallon of Ethanol as it does to product it. Not exactly smart.

Just my opinion.


Dennis


Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, strupid. . . .







WAR!!!!
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: US economy
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2008, 09:54:32 AM »

I think the biggest reason for everything going up in the US is the cost of the war. The government is printing money as fast as it can. The dollar is constantly loosing value. That's why oil is so high. A dollar does not buy as much so the oil producers raise the price of a barrel of oil per US dollars. Other countries whose currency has risen against the dollar are not hurting as much.

I've said for years that turning food into fuel is immoral. And I've heard that it takes as much energy to make a gallon of Ethanol as it does to product it. Not exactly smart.

Just my opinion.


Dennis


Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, strupid. . . .







WAR!!!!

Okay, but let's not turn this into politics.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: US economy
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2008, 10:08:35 AM »

Hi Steve,

I can certainly understand that feeling of wanting to correct obvious injustices and to improve the welfare of others but I cannot find any examples of Jesus or the apostles being social activists. Yes, Jesus upbraided the Pharisees for being hypocrites (and worse) in matters of religion, He even rebuked His own apostles for hardheartedness and laziness in spiritual things, but I don't see anywhere in scripture where He rails against the iron hand of Roman occupation and the injustices I am sure the Jews felt Rome was imposing on them.

That is actually what turned the people against Jesus, they expected a Messiah to establish an earthly Kingdom to restore the earthly Israel back to the days of David and Solomon. The Kingdom of God is a spiritual Kingdom the people then and most people now have little to no comprehension of what that actually means, this present world (and all it's afflictions) is exactly what God deems necessary to bring His children to Him, yes it seems bizarre, yes it certainly does not make sense to our natural minds but He tells us He is doing a "strange work" a work we in our present state do not completely understand, that is where faith in Him and not our own efforts comes into play.

Getting back to the crucifixion remember when the multitudes who once followed Jesus and just a few days earlier were shouting His praise?


Mat 21:9  And the multitudes that went before and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

But when they realized He was not going to supernaturally or otherwise challenge the status quo (Rome) they turned on Him preferring Barrabus the political activist who was to be crucified for challenging, protesting and attempting to lead an uprising against Rome.

Luk 23:18  And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:
 
Luk 23:19  (Who for a certain sedition4714 made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)
 
G4714
στάσις
stasis
stas'-is
From the base of G2476; a standing (properly the act), that is, (by analogy) position (existence); by implication a popular uprising; figuratively controversy: - dissension, insurrection, X standing, uproar.

I believe we are better served to concentrate on defeating the beast within our own selves rather than the beast "out there."

His Peace and Wisdom to you Brother,

Joe
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