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God=Love
hillsbororiver:
Dante,
As I stated before God may be dealing with others on another level that we might not be aware of or has yet to be revealed to us, loving mankind is a noble thing indeed but loving God comes first.
Look even John the Baptist is not going to be in the first resurrection because he was not under the promise of the New Covenant, but I would be reasonably certain his experience at the White Throne Judgment will not be extremely chastising. There will be many who God has used for good who were also not of the elect, you can go through the Old Testament for examples of this, "they obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise." (Heb 11:39).
Dante, perhaps the Lord is preparing you to be a witness of Christ (in the next age) to those who died without a knowledge of Him!
His Peace to you Brother,
Joe
P.S. Thanks for the kind words.
Kat:
Hi Dante,
--- Quote ---BUT, that the man that is imputed (BY GOD) righteousness, is being inputed LOVE.
Because God himself IS LOVE.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Maybe it is JUST THE LOVE that we need, since God himself said that ANYONE WHO LOVES HIS BROTHER, is of GOD.
--- End quote ---
There are quite a few example of people that never knew Jesus Christ and were considered righteous by God. These people were the epitome of love in what they were willing to do.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts:
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated... he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.
And who is the God of the Old Testament? Jesus Christ!
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham...obeyed; and he went out...
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises...
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac...
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob...
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph...
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses...
Heb 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab...
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gideon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthah; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
All these people and even John the Baptist, that Jesus Christ said there was none greater than he, will not be in the kingdom, he too will be in the Lake of fire.
Mat 11:11 "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
p.s. Joe, I see this is what you were referring to in your last post, well I got all the Scripture for you :)
Dante:
Ok,......I got ya now. I hope,....LOL! ;D
I must have missed that in Ray's Teaching.
So,..unless I am mistaken, you are telling me that John the Baptist will not be in the first resurrection because it states here:
Mat 11:11 "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
BUT, I don't know that this really states that John will not be in the first resurrection. I think that it merely points out that we have the potential (Or maybe better stated WILL BE) Greater in the Kingdom of Heaven since we are under a different age and given different promises from God.
BUT, what you are stating (Unless I am really off base) is that THESE people had GREAT LOVE, Yet will NOT have our position in the Kingdom. And a lesser one of US, with LESSER LOVE, WILL have a greater position in the kingdom, since we were born in a different time period and just happen to have that opportunity.
Did I totally mess up your idea??
Let me know, cause I am really getting stoked by talking about this kind of thing.
And thanks you guys for the help.
You don't know how much I appreciate it!!
Love always.
Dante :D
hillsbororiver:
Hi Dante,
What makes the "least in the Kingdom greater than John" is the very fact he will not be in it until after the White Throne Judgment, at that time the elect will be perfect in spirit, with an incorruptable mind and an immortal body, just like Christ! And they will be the ones doing the judging!
John can be considered last in the line of the OT/Old Covenant prophets as He did not live to see the promises fulfilled in Christ's sacrifice, resurrection and the former rain at Pentecost. He very well may have been the greatest of the OT prophets (I do not know this as fact) but anyone from the Old Covenant is less than those who have been chosen (by God) to be in the first resurrection, the key word is chosen because no one can boast that they did anything to deserve it!
From LOF Part 12;
THE WORLD IS GROANING FOR IT KNOWS NOT WHAT
"For the earnest expectation of the creation waits FOR THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD" (Rom. 8:19).
Notice this verse in a few other translations:
"For the EAGER outlook of creation ARDENTLY awaits the revealing of the Sons of God" (The Emphasized New Testament).
"For the LONGING of the creation LOOKS EAGERLY for the time when [the glory of] the sons of God shall be revealed" (The Epistles of Paul by Conybeare).
"All creation is YEARNING, LONGING to see the manifestation of the sons of God" (The New Testament in Modern Speech).
Or the creation waits with EAGER LONGING for the revealing of the sons of God" (The Revised Standard Version).
"THE WHOLE WORLD IS ON TIPTOE to see the wonderful sight of the sons of God coming into their own" (Phillips’ Translation).
To be sure, it is GOD Who is telling us that the whole creation is groaning in earnest expectation. It is groaning for it knows not what, but GOD KNOWS! In other words, God is telling US, who are growing in spiritual truths, what it is that the whole world and indeed the whole creation is in desperate need of—the saving power of the Sons of God. We ARE the BODY OF CHRIST! What Christ does, he DOES THROUGH US!
WHY? Why are they waiting for the manifestation of the Sons of God? Of what value will these Sons be to them? We can see why the Sons themselves would want to be manifested as such with God their Father and Elder Brother Jesus Christ, but why would all the wicked humanity of the entire "CREATION" be "waiting in EARNEST expectation?" What in the world is taking place here?
The church teaches that after all the Sons and Daughters of God are in their glory, the rest of the world will be tortured eternally by real fire in a terrorist hellhole of hopeless doom (never mind the fact that God says "there will be NO MORE DOOM") (Rev. 22:3, Concordant Literal New Testament).
Seriously, when all the Sons and Daughters of God are manifested IN THEIR GLORY, why would the ENTIRE CREATION be awaiting this event with almost uncontrollable bated breath, excitement, and anticipation? WHY? What is it that the churches have never told you? What is God going to do with all these glorified Sons and Daughters?
You have heard enough lies, now let’s read God’s Truth. Here is one of the most profound and all-encompassing Scriptures in the entirety of the Bible:
"For the earnest expectation of the creature [creation] waits for THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD. For the creature [creation] was MADE subject to VANITY [‘…surely, EVERY MAN IS VANITY’-- Psalm 39:11], NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [GOD] Who has subjected the same in HOPE. Because the creature [creation] itself also shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption [corruption includes DEATH] into THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD. For we know that THE WHOLE CREATION GROANS AND TRAVAILS IN PAIN together until now" (Rom. 8:19-22).
WOW! Let me point out a few marvelous things in this verse. Notice the chronological order of things in this Scripture and see how it contradicts the terrible teaching of orthodox doctrine:
First the Sons of God are manifested or shown to be what they really are—SPIRITUAL SONS OF GOD (and DAUGHTERS—II Cor. 6:18)! No longer flesh and blood. No longer subject to the pulls of a carnal mind, but True Sons in the very IMAGE OF GOD and His Son, Jesus Christ.
But what happens next? What happens to all the rest of humanity who are not sons and daughters and are not saved? What will happen to them? Just why, pray tell, are they eagerly awaiting the manifestation of these Sons and Daughters? Of what value is the salvation and manifestation of the few chosen saints to those left behind who are not saved?
The Church teaches the world that the rest of humanity will be tortured for all eternity in the lake of fire. Is that true? Is that the purpose of the lake of fire is?
Next we read what the condition of the rest of humanity is, how they got that way, and what is the solution to the problem.
"For the creature [creation] was made subject to VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope" (Rom. 8:20).
God MADE man subject to vanity. God did not ask man’s permission to do this. God did it for His own wise purpose. But God is not a fiend that takes pleasure in the failures of weak humanity. God did not make man in a condition of vanity so that most of humanity would fail of the ideal, and God would then torture most of his creation eternally, when it was He Who created them weak and subjected them to every form of vanity in the first place. God created the whole creation subject to vanity. It is, therefore, God’s responsibility to get man out of this mess.
God supernaturally made a way for the "manifested Sons of God" to conquer the flesh and the carnal mind and be formed into the very image of God with the very mind of Christ! They will be no longer subject to vanity when they are manifested. They will be no longer subject to "the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION." They will be FREE!
And it is they who will then FREE the rest of humanity from their bondage! What was the purpose for this subjection to vanity? So that they will eternally fail and God would eternally torture them for their failure? No! Let’s read it:
God has, "subjected the same IN HOPE" (Verse 20). Wait a minute, am I saying that all of humanity, who fail to be in the first resurrection and become the manifest Sons and Daughters of God, will nonetheless still have "hope?" Is there really hope for all the lost and unsaved? How can this be? Aren’t they going to be subjected to the "lake of fire?" Yes, but there is "hope" in the lake of fire. In fact, the lake of fire is their ONLY HOPE! They will not be eternally tortured just because they did not attain to the first resurrection, but will rather be "DELIVERED!" Let’s read it:
http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html
His Peace to you,
Joe
Kat:
Hi Dante,
I found a couple of emails that touch on this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4240.0.html ----------
Look at the "destiny" of the Patriots and Fathers of the Old Testament. Did they "die and go to heaven," as it so foolishly taught by Christendom? NO. Not even Enoch and Elijah. They ALL DIED, and not one of them "received a promise that was given them by God." Let's read it:
"These [those mentioned above: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah--and those that follow later in this chapter]...These ALL DIED in faith, NOT having received the promises...." (Heb. 11:13). Hebrews was written many many centuries AFTER all of these godly men died, and according to the author of Hebrews, they did not and had not YET received the promises. Imagine that: Dead for centuries and have NOT received their promises. But, they will, in the yet future, after the resurrection of the dead to judgment (Verses 39-40). The lake of fire is judgment; it is not ETERNAL TORTURE. And the Judgments of God bring godly righteousness: "When THY JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isaiah 26:9). What good is it if we do not believe ALL the Scriptures.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2385.0.html -----
Dear Ricardo:
No, you aren't silly. Actually, your are correct: John the Baptist will not be in the Kingdom before us. And that goes for all the patriarchs of old. Heb. 11 proves that none of them received the promises to them and furthermore, it proves that they will come into the Kingdom only by and through US (See Verses 39-40).
God be with you,
Ray
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