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God=Love
Robin:
Romans 7
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
I don't have the words to explain what I'm thinking, but there are laws at work and it isn't as simple as knowing that God is the one true God and choosing him. There is a verse somewhere that says even Satan acknowledges that. I can't find the verse. We are saved through Christ. What does that mean?
Matthew 3:11
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
If it only took a small word from God wouldn't we all have been perfected a long time ago. I know I'm still experiencing that fire and have been for many years. Jesus is the Word of God. I've always thought that the Word is the fire. If we go through Christ, we go through the fire.
Revelation 19:
The Rider on the White Horse
11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
There have been a couple of times when I've received truth that was too big for me to handle. I got a better understanding of the Israelites begging God not to speak to them at the foot of the mountain when they heard his voice. Who was that God of the old testament?
Deuteronomy 4:
10 Remember the day you stood before the LORD your God at Horeb, when he said to me, "Assemble the people before me to hear my words so that they may learn to revere me as long as they live in the land and may teach them to their children." 11 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. 12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice.
Beloved:
Sorry for the misunderstanding but here is a small clarification.
I did not mean to insinuate that people "know" God..even with todays telecommunication.
Most of todays Christians do not know Jesus Christ the way Jesus wants them to know him. They certainly do not understand the Father since they baspheme him with their hateful doctrines.
You yourself pointed that the majority of societies recognize some type of supreme being. Hence they know Christianity as "other" . The muslims, taoist, hindu and buddist and many others know of christianity. Some have been aprroached and rejected and others have not even learned anything except that fact.
Like I tried to state, the knowledge of the Jesus or God is not relevant to those in the past present or future or those few who have been so isolated they never 'heard or saw' anything except their own small world.
Also Dante the point about 'God having planned the whole thing'
the natural man is indignant and resentful & feels cheated & manipulated
the spiritual just melt into it and they are relaxed & totally comforted by the fact.
beloved
Kat:
Hi Dante,
--- Quote ---I am merely asking if God imputes Perfect love to a human, who happen to never have heard of Jesus. And in doing so, are they True Christians also??
--- End quote ---
Simply put to be considered a 'Christian,' is to know Christ and believe what He taught.
Christian
CHRISTIAN, n.
1. A believer in the religion of Christ.
2. A professor of his belief in the religion of Christ.
3. A real disciple of Christ; one who believes in the truth of the Christian religion, and studies to follow the example, and obey the precepts, of Christ; a believer in Christ who is characterized by real piety.
(Webster's on E-Sword)
Christ is the only way which anyone can receive salvation.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3120.0.html ----
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
But in Acts 4:12 The words Must be saved are used. Why do all the other verses use shall be saved but in Acts 4:12 the bible reads Must be saved?
Thanks Michael
Dear Michael:
The word "must" (Greek means 'necessary, behooves, binding') shows that salvation can not come by or through any other ways or means, than the NAME of Jesus Christ, ONLY.
Hence, the emphasis upon that Name. Jews, for example, cannot be saved in the Name of "God" aside from the Name of Jesus as John Hagee teaches. They MUST acknowledge the "Name" of Jesus Christ.
God be with you,
Ray
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A Christian would be those we considered the 'Called.' Those who have been called to Christ, so to speak. They are mostly made up of the church world (though you can know of Christ without going to church), they come to know of Christ, but it is a physical knowledge only.
Now the 'Chosen' are those from the called, that God has chosen to work with to a much greater degree. The Chosen have their eyes opened to spiritual understanding. These are those being judged now, who are being made into the image of Christ now. The Chosen are those who will remain faithful to the end and be in the first/former resurrection. They will reign and rule with Christ, they will be the Lake of fire along with Christ.
The Lake of Fire is a GOOD THING, and in my opinion should not be feared or looked at in a negative light.
Indeed it is a good thing, it is the means by which the vast majority of humanity will learn who Christ is and learn how to obey Him and evenually recieve salvation.
http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html ---------------------------
GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE
I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.
Ponder this:
Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).
We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).
We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).
God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).
We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).
God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!
God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:
"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).
Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!
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Hope this helps :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Stevernator:
Hi Dante and everyone,
All of the responders made great points and I'd like to add a bit to the discussion.
--- Quote ---What are the chances that when Jesus states that the only way to the Father is through me. He means that the only way to God is through what Jesus Christ represents.
--- End quote ---
I want to caution you because like others said, no one is good.
Jesus said through me and I do not believe that there it is possible to reach God and have the necessary righteousness without going through Christ.
We can be very good compared to others but scripture says righteousness is imputed through faith and the just shall live by faith.
Rom 3:10 according as it is written, that "Not one is just- not even one."
Rom 4:4 Now to the worker, the wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as a debt."
Rom 4:5 Yet to him who is not working, yet is believing on Him Who is justifying the irreverent, his faith is reckoned for righteousness."
Rom 6:23 For the ration of Sin is death, yet the gracious gift of God is life eonian, in Christ Jesus, our Lord."
John the Baptist was the most righteous human being alive other than Jesus but he was still less than those in the kingdom of heaven so he too needed to go through Christ to be saved.
--- Quote ---But, I most humbly was wondering if anyone had an opinion by using the word of God that there MAY be people who are Christians who have no knowledge of Christ
--- End quote ---
I suppose the main question you are asking is: is it possible for someone who has never heard and never will hear of Jesus while still alive on Earth to be a called and chosen elect?
Does God call and choose people who don't have or never will hear about Jesus on Earth?
Gal 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you get the spirit by works of law or by hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 So foolish are you? Undertaking in spirit, are you now being completed in flesh?
Hmm I do not know but it seems like hearing of faith is important.
(Off topic - the way spirit is used here seems to support Ray's teaching against the trinity.)
--- Quote ---We may be able to put it in a way such as this. Some may need JUST A TOE TOUCHING, while others may need a long duration in the Lake of God's Love
--- End quote ---
I really do agree with you on this though. Quite contrary to some mainstram teaching. :o
Peace,
Steve
Dante:
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.,........No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
2:4 John said, "He who says 'I know him' but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him." in 2:9 John says, "He who says he is in the light and hates his brother is in the darkness still. He who loves his brother abides in the light."
(And what are the commandments? To Love God and our brethren (All People). Because in Loving our brethren , we have shown Love to our God. It MAY not even be necessary to know who God is, since in the below Judgment passages, it SEEMS as though, the BLESSED do not even realize that they have fulfilled the laws of God ).
The Judgment
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 “All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
( Notice at the judgment, It seems as if the “blessed” didn’t have any idea of what it was that they were doing, YET in doing so, they were fulfilling the commandments of God.)
40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 “Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
3:14, "We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we LOVE the brethren."
All I am saying is that I am not ready to push “Others” into the corrective lake of fire the ones who do not know God‘s name, or who have a false idea of GOD’S NAME. If THESE PEOPLE by LIVING A LIFE OF LOVE (That the Father has given them) They are doing the works and fulfilling the commandments of God, AND they might not even be aware of the fact that they are doing the very thing that we should be doing.
Since we know that Casting out demons and performing miracles and even signs of prophesy are NOT true signs of being saved, or Blessed or lambs or Sons of God, or whatever label you wish to put on it.
For Abraham was justified by acts, he has something to boast in, but not toward God. For what is the scripture saying? Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reconed to him for righteousness."
Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Because he carried out the VALUES of God. That MAY be the name under which we are to be saved. And if it is not just a matter of Calling Jesus LORD, then I MUST assume that LOVE would be the name under which to be justified under.
We know that ANYONE who is doing the acts of the Father is of the Father. Which one of us being Christians would LABEL a man who feeds the poor, clothes the homeless, acts in ALL WAYS as JESUS Does, NOT OF GOD?? Even if they have a misunderstood concept of what the NAME of God is.
It is obvious that calling Jesus Lord, Lord, does not mean that we are saved. And by understanding the concept of who and what Christ is, is not a determining factor of Being saved from the correctional Lake of Fire, since EVEN Satan himself MUST know who and what Jesus is. YET,…does Satan carry out the acts of the Father? No,..Satan acts as an adversary to the Father. Does knowing a name mean so much to God??
Or is the HEART of TRUE CHRISTIANITY the doing the LOVE that the Father has ordained to the human individual. I think that we must be cautious not to call something (Or in this case, someone) who is of God , …”NOT of God”. Don’t you think?
Love is from God, this is clear. This agapao (ag-ap-ah'-o) or Dutiful LOVE is from God. And the Word of God states that ANYONE, who has this dutiful Love as in 1John 4:7, is from God. YET, it does not state ANY other stipulation as to “Being of God”.
So to make a quick summery, There WILL be people who profess to know Jesus Christ.
And on that day of Judgment SOME of those people who professed Christ as Lord will be denied, by Christ himself.
Is it NOT POSSIBLE, that there will be those who have NEVER called Christ LORD, YET,..in carrying out the WILL of the Father, are in the Father and are of the Blessed ONES?
Is it not possible that since some professing Christians will get blindsided by the FACT that they were never TRULY Christians at all. That there are people who NEVER professed to BE Christians, YET acted on the Father’s Wishes and Were IN FACT TRUE CHRISTIANS?
Please don't get me wrong. I do NOT MEAN that it is a WORKS Program, But that we wish in our HEARTS, and that we agree with the Law of God and that we DESIRE TO DO GOOD (To LOVE),...and that is our Prerequisite for Salvation. And NOT the exact knowledge of EVERY facet of the Living God. We MAY not even have to know his name, but to know HIS ESSENCE, is what is of EXTREME VALUE! I cannot even explain all I feel on this subject, But I FEEL that I MAY be correct. I feel it in my Heart.
I put it to you to think on. And that is all I expect.
Thank you. God’s Love be with you all.
Humbly, in God's service.
(The wise man looks to the ground as he walks).
Dante
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