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[Sorin]

Prayer Before Medicine - Girl Dies

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xqj3jS-tPpc


 An 11-year-old town of Weston, Wisconsin, girl died Sunday from a treatable form of diabetes after her parents prayed for healing rather than seek medical treatment, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said this afternoon.

Vergin said the girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, believe she died because they apparently didn't have enough faith.

Members of the Neumann family operate Monkey Mo coffee shop in Weston, and a sign on the business' window today said it had been closed "due to a family emergency."

The child's aunt from California asked police to respond to the home to check on her niece, Madeline Neumann, Vergin said. Neumann then was taken by ambulance to Saint Clare's Hospital where she was pronounced dead.

Vergin said the cause of death was diabetic ketoacidosis, which develops when a person has too little insulin in their body. Left untreated, diabetic ketoacidosis might cause a person to lose consciousness and die, according the Mayo Clinic Web site.

Vergin said Madeline, who went by her middle name, Kara, had probably been ill for about 30 days, suffering symptoms like nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness.

"It is our understanding that instead of seeking medical help, they chose to pray over her and their faith would heal her," Vergin said.

"She got sicker and sicker until she was dead," he told The Associated Press.

He said the family has no ties to a specific church or religion. "They have a little Bible study of a few people."

Police will continue to investigate Neumann's death and forward their findings to the Marathon County district attorney's office to determine if a crime was committed, Vergin said.

A telephone message left at the Neumann home by the Wausau Daily Herald was not immediately returned today.

Vergin said the girl had not seen a doctor since age 3. Police have not had contact with her family in the past.

The girl had attended Riverside Elementary School in the D.C. Everest School District during the first semester but didn't return for the second semester.

The girl has three siblings, ranging in age from 13 to 16, the police chief said.

"They are still in the home," Vergin said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."

Kathy Ziembo, an advanced practice registered nurse for Aspirus Wausau Hospital, said diabetic ketoacidosis is a treatable condition that the hospital helps patients with several times a week.

"You know if there is something wrong," Ziembo said.

A shortage of insulin causes the body to break down fat, which produces toxic acids known as ketones, Ziembo said. Treatment generally takes a few days in the hospital as patients are given insulin intravenously and fluids are replaced, she said.

People with Type 1 diabetes are at the highest risk of developing diabetic ketoacidosis, according to the Mayo Clinic. Type 1 diabetes in children typically develops as a genetic condition that requires insulin treatments.

Type 2 diabetes patients are able to generate some insulin, but not enough. Type 2 typically develops as the result of a health issue and is often preventable, according to doctors.

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This is just sad. There's nothing wrong with praying for your child to get healed; but that doesn't mean you refuse medical care. They should be locked up for a very long time. 

[gmik]

Dang!!  I hate to hear that.  Stupid people. BUT...there but for the grace of God go I.....

And that little girl was planned to leave us that way....isn't that what we believe?

[musicman]

Scientific knowledge is given by God.  It should never be avoided when it can be used possitively.

[David]

Scientific knowledge is given by God.  It should never be avoided when it can be used possitively.

Hear Hear.......
Matt 9:12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick." A parable indeed, but a true statement none the less.

Col 4:14 Luke the beloved physician and Demas greet you. Paul travelled extensively with Luke during his ministry. Knowing what the scriptures tell us about Paul's many ailments and infirmities, I'm sure he prayed for good health and I'm sure many prayed for him, but I'm sure he took advantage of Luke's God given abilities as a Physician.
It's very sad when people turn their backs on the knowledge and science God has given to humanity in order to make us well and make our lives easier. The consequences are often tragic.

[Linny]

It is very sad but I don't agree that the medical community is the way to go for healing. Medicines treat symptoms and so do doctors.  I didn't say that doctors don't care, I just believe they have been taught and courted by big-pharma about how to treat.

When Jesus referred to physicians treating sickness we have to understand where the medical field came from. The early doctors and the father of modern medicine believed in nutrition.

There are medications that have a 500,000 % profit. Is there any wonder we see a new Walgreen's or Rite-Aid being built on every corner?  Drugs are a racket and everyone is on them these days. We are not. We don't use prescription drugs and my kids don't get sick. A cold about once a year is the extent. But that is because of how they have been raised and how they have been fed.

I have spent 16 years studying how to be healed by actually using what God has given us. Biblical nutrition, herbs and homeopathic medicine when absolutely necessary is where I see the Lord. We were created with self-healing bodies and I have seen too many people actually healed (including myself) by using the kinds of things I have learned so I would not go back to the ways of the world. It is quite exciting.

Diabetes is easily treated and children or adults getting it can be prevented as well.

The Lord called us out of the world in a lot of things before He called us out of Babylon. We have been "wackos" for many years already and I am so thankful. What a blessing not to have sick children.

Rom 12:2
(CEV)  Don't be like the people of this world, but let God change the way you think. Then you will know how to do everything that is good and pleasing to him.

So what these parents did was wrong, I just don't think the doctor was the answer. There was a reason for their child's illness and they should have investigated and treated it. In an emergency, accident, life or death situation, doctors are fine. But then we have to take control of our own health.

My oh so humble opinion....
Lin

[Craig]

Diabetes is easily treated and children or adults getting it can be prevented as well.

Type 2, I agree.  Type 1, that would not be a correct statement.

Craig

[David]

Hi Linny,
Thanks for sharing, very interesting stuff.
Here in the UK the national health service, our doctors etc are very big on correct nutrition and diet as preventative medicine......the only problem is, food manufacturers and advertising are not. For every 1 million spent by our government promoting healthy eating, 10 million is spent by food companies advertising junk food. And good nutritional fresh food is way more expensive in the supermarkets than junky ready prepaired food with fancy packaging to catch the eye of kids.
When I was a child, me and my brothers were never allowed to go shopping for groceries with my mother. We ate what she brought home.........maybe that's not such a bad thing, what with food companies exploiting child pester power these days.

[dewey]

My bewildered friend, Lenny

You would have fit in perfectly with Herbert W. Armstrong's teachings.  I will not comment on how many people died unnecessarily because of his ignorance of the Lord.  He let his wife die - she did not have to ( and NUMEROUS other people)..

MT 9:12 Jesus approved of doctors.  He said, it is not the healthy that need a doctor, but the sick.

(quote you ) "The early doctors and the fathers of modern medicine believed in nutrition" .  That is just partially correct.  And we know today how important vitamins and all that kind of stuff is for our health.  But back in those old days they had doctors that put stitches in people.  They had doctors that put leeches on people to suck out the poison and eat the puss.  Lenny, with all the glorious things that you just said, and if all that be true, then I would love to be able to meet you and maybe walk in your shadow and be healed of my infirmities.  I have yet to see a human being in this age have the faith that it takes to walk on water or heal the sick.  Me and mine, we believe in Jesus and we try in faith to obey his laws and commandments.  Which one?  All of them.  I believe that the people that let the little girl die should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  Number 1 charge:  ignorance.  Number 2 charge:  first degree manslaughter.  How so?  Well, if they would have known the Lord that good, they would have known that God continually gives mankind knowledge - to help us in this age.  We have to take into consideration that we have doctors today that are very knowledgeable.  They have dedicated at lot of their lives to obtaining this knowledge.  Until Jesus tells me personally not to go or take my children to a doctor, I will have to put my trust in the doctor every time. 

As a matter of fact, there is a young man on this forum studying to be a doctor.  What kind of doctor, I don't know.  His name is Alex.  To be a doctor, he has to involve a lot of his time (his youth)  to his study.  There is a sacrifice there.  My point is that there are doctors that do care and do these medical works in the name of the Lord.  It's not that they believe and have to do personally with pharmaceutical labs but they know what relieves pain and a fever.

If it sounds like I have a case of the a -- it is because I do. 

In the Spirit ot of Jesus

Paula and I love all the people who will let us

Dewey

P.S.  I agree with Sorin on this.  They should serve a VERY long time.  Their baby is dead and they didn't do what could have been done to avoid this.  Of course, it's all of God.  Amen....

[dewey]

Hi, this is Paula, Dewey's wife

I just had to ask you one question, Lenny.  When your wife gave birth to your child(ren) did she go to a hospital with doctors or did she deliver at home with a mid-wife?  Did you get the best possible care? or trust it to the Lord at home?  If you did it a home, fine.  But if you went to the hospital what changed your faith now saying that it should have been done without doctors at home?  Just curious.

Love ya
   paula

[musicman]

I understand that the drug companies are corrupt and that the FDA stifles natural remedies.  The point is, is that when offered a way to live, it should be taken advantage of.  The parents here prayed for a mirracle.  The mirracle is readily available in the form of insulin (I think that's what they use).  Are there better ways?  Probably.  But people should always search for the best ways available to enjoy and prolong their life.

[Craig]

The miracle is readily available in the form of insulin (I think that's what they use).  Are there better ways?  Probably.

The young girl was type 1 diabetic, there are no better ways, yet.  80-90 years ago insulin was discovered and has saved many many lives. 

Now days it seems like the new drugs treat symptoms rather than provide cures.  No money in cures, tons in treatments.

Craig

[Linny]

Wow, lots of comments to comment on.
First, most childhood diabetes in my opinion and from what I have been studying is due to the many poisons in the ridiculous number of vaccines that children are taking these days. This is why I say it is preventable. Add to that the high fructose corn syrup in the formula that most children ingest, some from birth, being fed grains from about 2 months, dead food in a jar, and you can see that the pancreas would be in trouble early on.

When I was a child, the number of vaccines were about 4x less I believe. I'd say the known carcinogens like formaldehyde and the monkey DNA being injected in our kids has quite a bit to do with all the new diseases kids today deal with that my generation did not.

But don't even try to get me to argue about vaccines with you guys that have your feet firmly planted in the medical world. It is a waste of our time. Just do your own research and if you'd like names of some great books written by medical researchers and Pediatricians (whose opinions you seem to value), I'd be happy to pass them on to you to do your research before arguing. I have studied ALL sides for 15 years and spent 6 years working in a hospital and also went to nursing school.

Dewey, you apparently didn't read my post thoroughly. I never said that I relied on prayer only for the health of my children. Obviously, I pray over my children. But what I did say was that I take responsibility for my health and the health of my kids. I don't put that responsibility off onto people I do not know who have been trained in a field that belongs to men who stand to make billions of dollars off my ignorance.

If you could actually shadow me as you say, you would learn a lot about healing your conditions. I am always happy to point people who want to learn to great places to do so.
Like when I did my own research and did not go on drugs for my hypothyroidism 11 yrs ago and now have been healed of it, quite easily, for 10 yrs now. Had I gone the doctors route, I would by now probably have changed over to hyperthyroidism and then probably had my thyroid destroyed by radiation as did many people I know. How about the fact that I no longer wear glasses and reversed my need for them in my 40's?
Or like my friend who when told her gallbladder must come out, researched it for herself, did a special cleanse for 2 weeks and now has a healed and healthy gallbladder instead of a scar and the problems that come with its removal years down the road.
I also know quite a few people who have been healed of cancer and of diabetes through nutrition. I can't even begin to tell you all the people I know that got healed without a doctor. And I didn't say that they prayed themselves well (although I do know people who have done that as well and would never negate healing from the Lord. ) I am speaking of healing through finding out the cause of the problem and using God's healing nutrients to fix it rather than use a drug to treat the symptoms and then deal with the damage to your other organs from the drug.

Medical schools don't teach doctors to treat people's causes. Pick up a medical journal, take out all the ads for drugs and see what is left. (A pamphlet ) I also know a doctor who lost his medical license because he refused to drug all his patients. He continued his practice however and helped a lot of people by doing the right thing. Drugs should always be a last resort.

Why do you put so much faith in the science of medicine and no faith in the science of nutrition and all those who study that? Just because you haven't researched it doesn't make it something you should mock or call me "bewildered" over. I haven't called you names for putting your faith in doctors. I am just thankful I have found a better way and wish everyone were so blessed.

So had you read my post more closely, you would have seen that I also thought what these parents did was terrible. They had a sick child and needed to find out what was wrong with her. But I wouldn't want to be the parents of the 16 yr old young man who was taken away from his parents for curing his cancer on his own and was being threatened by the state with forced chemotherapy when he didn't want it or need it. I don't think we need big brother determining what is best for our kids. Kids must be protected but it is a fine and dangerous line.

As Christ Followers, we need to wake up and realize that all we hear on TV and in the media is controlled by the people with the most money and power. Taking care of yourself is preventive medicine. I have the God given right to raise my children the way I have been led to do. You say God hasn't led you away from the doctors? Well, He did lead me away. As I said, I came out of many world systems before He led me out of Babylon.
It made coming out of the church so much easier for us. We have been seeing His truth for a LONG time.

Paula, as for my babies births. Glad you asked. By the way, it is Linny, and I am the wife. 
I had my first daughter in the hospital and because I was ignorant then about childbirth, I let the doctor (in a hurry to go home on Sunday) give me an unnecessary C-section. Very sad for me and for her. I did my research and when number 2 came along we used a midwife. I got wonderful care, took the best supplements (whole food, cold-processed) and she was breech just like her mommy. Because of my previous C-section, my midwife wouldn't deliver her at home so we ended up back in the hospital very unfortunately. It wasn't my desire but God was so good to me. The doctor on call had a midwife for a wife and the nurses were all supportive of my attempted homebirth much to the dismay of my midwife. My second child who never saw a doctor before her birth, is even healthier than my first.
So, yes, I do advocate homebirth. Midwives don't treat pregnancy as a disease.

Be blessed!
Lin

[phazel]

. How about the fact that I no longer wear glasses and reversed my need for them in my 40's?

I'd like to know more about this, I have had glasses since I was 6 years old.

[Beloved]

Hi Linny

Nothing in your post offended me and I am a doctor ( yes one of those an M.D.) . We are not all bad but just like thechurch, tremedous corruption has occurred within thi field. It runs gamut from the top to the bottom. Money and Pride and Fear are the driving forces. I too am getting off that train but I expect to hit many obstacles. 

I would say that I agree with most of your opinions but for perhays different reasons. I may go into these later on but I have to get back to work

Using the information that God has given man is not wrong, Prayer is coming into agreement with what Gods want and forgoing what you want. God will use whatever means to accomplish what He want.
 
beloved

[Beloved]

In relation to illness each person needs to be aware of who they are trusting. Like the church , today's medical system still likes to treat the patient as "the stupid laymen". The insurance companies and the cost of services also dictate who and what will be done. The poor get a a much lower quality of medical treatment. Many cannot affort "the best" even with insurance.

Here is one negaive aspect of medications. More than 2 million Americans become seriously ill every year because of toxic reactions to correctly prescribed medicines taken properly, and 106.000 die from those reactions, a new study concludes. That surprisingly high number makes drug side effects at least the sixth, and perhaps even the fourth, most common cause of death in this country.

The analysis, the largest and most complete of its kind, suggests that one in 15 hospital patients in the United States can expect a serious reaction to prescription or over-the-counter medicine. and about 5 percent of these will die from it.

If the findings are accurate, then the number of people dying each year from drug side effects may be exceeded only by the numbers of people dying from heart disease cancer and stroke. and may be greater than the number dying from lung disease, pneumonia or diabetes.

Experts said the study, which appears in today's issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, is stronger than previous ones because it looks only at cases in which drugs were taken correctly. Previous hints of similarly high side effect rates had been attributed in large part to people getting the wrong medicines or taking them in the wrong doses.

Only one quarter of the reactions were due to patients being allergic to the drug in question. In theory, those reactions could be avoided by more carefully asking patients about known allergies. The rest of the side effects were classified as essentially inevitable, bound to affect a certain percentage of the population for unknown reasons.

There are a lot of theoretical causes for  Type I or Juvenile diabetes, a viral infection effecting the Pancrease.  I even have read that in Utero Vitamin A defiiciency predisposes them to getting it. Like I said there are several ways this could occur.

Whatever the cause it is treatable today because we have insulin, In the past juvenile diabetics did not live long and few reproduced unless they had very poor low calorie diets.

The Medical field has focused it study but it is now in bed with a lot of financial interests : pharaceurical, medical equipment, insurance and even the government. Yes this child may have been helped if seen and treated. The parents were foolish not to have utilized the things that God has provided. God provided men with minds and the abilty to solve some of earth's challenges.

On the other hand prayer is needed ....ALWAYS....not for the cure, not for the treatment, not for the people involved but ......for this incidence/illness to be for the Glory of God.

If this couple stood before the judgement seat today ...they would not be shamed for their steadfast praying...they would cry bitterly because they followed the false doctrines of a corrupt church.

All of us have horror stories about going to the doctor/hospital and the reverse side has similiar tales.. Both sides of the isle could entertain us for a long time.

Keep in mind........Even this event was in God's Will.....  even when we do not understand it.


beloved

[Craig]

There are a lot of theoretical causes for  Type I or Juvenile diabetes, a viral infection effecting the Pancrease.  I even have read that in Utero Vitamin A defiiciency predisposes  them to getting it. Like I said there are several ways this could occur.

Whatever the cause it is treatable today because we have insulin, In the past juvenile diabetics did not live long and few reproduced unless they had very poor low calorie diets.

The biggest reason that type 1 diabetes is on the rise is because it is genetic and for the last 80 years these genetically disposed children are reproducing, where before they would die before they passed on their genes. 

Now God is letting these children live and reproduce, my child is one and I appreciate the chance he's been given.  It is all in God's plan.

Craig

[Beloved]

Yes Craif I concur

People with Type 1 diabetes have a genetic pre-disposition to the disease, but one or more environmental insults is required to trigger disease.
Genetic predisposition
   Environmental trigger
         Active autoimmunity
             Progressive beta-cell destruction

 Presentation of the symptoms of Type 1 diabetes

This fact can be derived from studies of identical twins with Type 1 diabetes. When one twin has Type 1 diabetes, the other twin gets diabetes only half the time. If the cause of Type 1 diabetes were purely genetic, both identical twins would always have Type 1 diabetes

They are developing better treatments but unfortunately the food industry tends to sabotage things.

The good thing is that today with glucose monitors the patients now can participate in the control of their disease. There are forums and information available..again the but the costs and side effects have to be balanced.

beloved

beloved