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Author Topic: Tree of Life  (Read 6254 times)

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Deborah-Leigh

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Tree of Life
« on: April 03, 2008, 06:08:45 PM »

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6936.0.html

I read through what Harris presented.

I am not posting this to put Harris on a stool to throw our tomatoes at him. On the contrary. It is fascinating to see how much theology interupts what he is trying to convey.

It is discernable to see where he falls flat in his untested assumptions that Adam was created in the image of God and there after FELL from Grace. We know that Adam and Eve were created carnal and did not FALL from anything but did exactly what God knew they would do and that was disobey Him and eat of the fruit from the tree of Good and Evil.

Then the choice we have as seen to come out of our own supreme free will to contradict God or even to surprise Him like it is taught that happened when Satan decided to go against God and Eve decided to disobey. No such thing! We know Lucifer is not Satan.

I am not writing this to show up Harris or ridicule his effort to teach. What is edifying is that his presentation is loaded with untested assumptions. No doubt through the foolishness of his preaching he will be reaching some who believe.

What I find interesting after discarding 9/10's of what he writes, the Scriptures stand sure and true regardless of what he assumes they mean or say.

I enjoyed that Harris presents the Scriptures as alive and addressing each one of us individually.  Perhaps this is because I believe and yet through all the foolishness, I find I BELIEVE. I do not believe Harris or agree with his ideas and untested allegations. I can believe that the Word of God is alive, not dead and that we who believe will be able to see past the dross and shadow that veils the ever present all knowing Way Truth and Life that is Christ Jesus yesterday today and tomorrow.

By contrast the temptation comes to see self as grand and above Harris but actually we are to know too, that one day, even Harris will be blessed to see, repent and discern Christ which is what his thoughts seem to aspire intellectually to achieve once all the error visible to us in his teachings, is discared.

It is for us to pity our fate that we can not make him see anything but we can aspire to the confidence of knowing one day he will get it.  ;D I think then he might feel very chastised for the errors he is "teaching" right now.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 06:14:18 PM by Arcturus »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 10:58:32 PM »



I see 50 people have read this thread and still no one has responded. I think a clarification would be appropriate at this point and what comes to mind to share is what a Dear Brother wrote to me recently.  I believe this better puts into perspective what I have tried to communicate in my own words. Here is the insight shared with me from my Brother quote :

....if someone needs to be warned of judgment, warn them of judgment.  If someone is more gentle, then patiently and gently instruct them, with less talk of judgment. 

I believe we should learn to handle each person and situation appropriately, in the hopes that they can escape the divided house that will soon fall upon them.

We wouldn't want to beat a meek and feeble soul over the head with all kinds of threatening judgment talk, just as we wouldn't want to preach lovey dovey mercy to a person who is stubborn and stiff necked.  For a Christian who is not very well versed in the scriptures, we wouldn't want to start spewing all sorts of technical scriptural stuff, because they wouldn't grasp it, or we might even perhaps choke them to death.  For someone who does have a deeper scriptural knowledge, we can afford to get into more meatier issues of the Word.  For someone who has just tragically lost a family member unexpectedly, it's probably not a good idea to focus on God's sovereignty and control over all evil and pain and suffering, because that might turn them away from God.  We would want to focus on other aspects of His character that may be more comforting for them at that particular moment.  We must be patient and look at the big picture when ministering to others.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

We can't beat or forcefeed our fellow servants.  We must have discernment about all situations.  We must learn to "give them their food allowance at the proper time."


I see Ray being able to discern exactly how he should best respond to the emails he gets. Ray does not upbraid a person for asking questions but he does warn anyone who is attacking, slandering, twisting and abusing the Word of God. We know from those who have met Ray and know him personally that Ray has no bitterness or vengeance towards any one and that he is not angry or personally offended by anyone. What Ray does is respond to the variety of ways in which people confront the Word of God.

There were so many errors in Harris "teaching" and that Ray took the time to even respond to him shows great love for the Truth and endurance to teach a deceived person that we all have been at one time.  :)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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Robin

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2008, 05:49:57 PM »

Your post was thought provoking Arcturus.

It brought back many memories. First of all I've had to ask forgiveness for all the times I taught or spoke of unscriptual lies in my youth. There is no way to go back and correct it all so I put it in God's hands. I am very careful now when sharing truth. If I don't know something for sure I say "I don't know". Our words are very important and we are accountable.

When I am going through a crisis or tragedy I want brothers and sisters to tell me truth. Even if that truth is hard. It brings me comfort to know that God is in control. It brought me great comfort when I found Ray to learn that God created evil and uses it for his plan and purposes. I did not like believing that evil sprang forth from a rebellion and God allowed it. It brought resentments against God because I felt like a pawn in the middle of a battle between God and Evil. God didn't seem to be winning. It was a great test of my faith right before finding Ray when I asked God if this was just some kind of a game. I didn't have the answer, but I had to believe that God was good and there was an answer. I found that answer here.

I remember the day my brother and sister-in-law gave birth to their daughter. I was in the room with them when the doctor came in and told us she had down syndrome. I spoke the truth that it was God's will and they were able to hear that because my brother knew God was sovereign. We felt the power of God in that room that day. There are so many times I wish I could speak that truth when someone is going through a terrible crisis. A hug and tears just doesn't bring that kind of peace. Not many can hear it. Telling them that God will take care of them through the crisis is as much as they can hear and that can be difficult when the "why" questions come to the surface.

Thank you Arcturus.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 05:51:53 PM by M.G. »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2008, 07:12:52 PM »

Dear MG

Thank you for your responce.

I agree that I too missed the mark through rebellion that conceived belief in error and set false examples idolising them to be holy and true. What a travesty! The chastisement of knowing that wrongs can not be humanly mastered, settled or defended before God is in deed humiliating!

Right now I am seeing powerful words of Comfort in what the Lord says in Hos 2 : 23....and I will have love, pity and mercy...

Hos 3 : 5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and His Goodness in the latter days....


I feel like I am entering in my own latter days right now! ...and your words of Comfort express the Love, Pity and Mercy that is the Nature and Presence of the Lord.

The resentments the carnal can feel against God is real agony diffused only through His Mercy. This Peace does surpass worldly peace and understanding for a reason. It is peace upon the death of the carnal and not nourishment to satisfaction of carnal cravings.  This reminds me of the Quail that God sent the Hebrews because the bread from heaven was not enough. Then the snakes came and they died again.

I really feel as if my life right now is experiencing areas in the Bible that have been recorded for my admonition. Comforting words are so precious! They will be precious to those who have to experience the chastisement for errors they will have to pass through if not now, later!

Mercy!

Peace to you Sister and thank you for sharing.

Arc.
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Samson

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2008, 02:23:28 PM »

Thankyou Arcturus for this Thread,

                                                I'm one of those fifty people that viewed this thread and didn't respond, will try to do so on my dayoff, need my thinking cap and alittle reflection before making a comment, however, what I read was very interesting, give me some pondering time, probably Monday, if God willing.

                                  Your Bother, Samson.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2008, 03:08:39 PM »

Hey Sampson

Thank you. I enjoy your posts. You are never too late to add what inspires you to draw to our attention for our own edification encouragment or exhortation.

Peace to you brother

Arc.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2008, 04:43:24 AM »

Amen to that Rodger! 8)

This is getting to my point in that there is no anger or hate in our view point and neither should there be against any who are deceived. Of course our aversion is correctly against the error not the error holder!

The error will be destroyed when the Truth comes and the error holder will be set free, corrected, nudged, and taught righteousness. Some will resist and encounter God as being in charge and the mightier power and others who's hearts are in the right place, will receive "fewer stripes." This is not about us and our holier than thou attitudes that we and Ray are persistently falsely accused of holding.

Thanks for your insight.

Peace to you brother

Arcturus :)
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Falconn003

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2008, 11:52:29 PM »

1 tomatoe ,, just 1 tomatoe pleassssseeeeeee   ;D


Rodger
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 03:17:10 AM »

Too cute....lol....only for the salad....for the table of the Lord! ;D
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kweli

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 11:39:28 AM »

BOOOOOOOO Arcturus

Falcon, let's throw at three...

1...

2...

maybe not. I feel like a salad anyway
 :D
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Falconn003

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 11:49:44 AM »

Toooooooooo  late .. i ate mine  ;D

Rodger

PS i was looking forthe old Tree of life threads and can not seem to find them. prolly the tomatoe in my eyes.


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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2008, 04:58:04 PM »

Hi Sampson

Thank you for your thoughts and for sharing your experiences.

As my Brother pointed out   " we must have discernment about all situations" illustrates for me that every moment of our lives and experiences ARE situations! Indeed we have to learn balance, equilibrium and temperance!  :)

As for your ex-wife, I believe you know the boundaries and how far you can go ie discerning the situation. Also it is so worthwhile that you have experienced first hand that debate is useless. As Ray teaches :To win an argument against their will is to leave them with the same opinion still!... :D

So I am glad you are conserving the oil in your lamp and not spilling it into  efforts to illuminate others through contention and debate. It is also wise to have pity on those who think they know it all or have overcome. I know that Babylon teaches that there are differences in spiritual distinction between the brethren. This sets up all kinds of errors. As Ray has pointed out what Christ said to His children Mark 10 : 42 You know that those who are recognized as governing (Pope, Priests, Religious leaders) and are supposed to rule the Gentiles, lord it over them, and their great men (John Hagee, Paul White, Joel etc etc..)exercise authority and dominion over therm. But this is NOT TO BE SO AMONG YOU.....

We all have much to learn from Ray's Site and we are all still in the process of reaching deeper insights and knowledge of God. Non of us fully understand everything yet.

Peace to you brother

Arc. 
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2008, 08:39:28 PM »

Hey Rodger

Thank you for your thoughtful responce.

Yes, they have their temporal reward that we know can not withstand the fire of the Spirit of God that consumes carnality. "Woe" is them most assuredly not because we are holier than thou sanctimonious perverts of the faith but because Jesus said so and His Word is Truth. That should be enough to make anyone shake in their boots and think again but God's Spirit is what quickens and through only His Spirit are the eyes opened. We could be one of them, blind stupid dull ignorant vessels very busily absorbed into our own conceits and as you so astutely discern :

Quote
harris is most assuredly preparing for WAR,

Gives us better eyes to see that if we are to be among the Saints and Elect to return to this earth to teach them righteousness, it will be through God's Mercy and providence that we have won through endurance, suffering and their war against us that falsely accuses, condemns and persecutes. Theirs is most assuredly the woe and them who are following Christ with the cross of self denial, to them is the victory over death. Others will follow but through the LOF of which the Saints and Elect will join in Gods consuming nature that is fire to carnality and the war it makes against God Almighty.

Our weapons must be put down, cutting off no ears and peacefully bearing all things as does love.

This is an awesome trial sustainable only through Grace and His Strength and choosing.

Peace to you brother

Arcturus :)
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Tree of Life
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2008, 04:43:32 PM »

I BELIEVE Ray when he says that he does not hate or feel angry towards Harris or anyone. I believe BECAUSE I know it is possible to be perceived incorrectly, judged falsely and slandered relentlessly.Just look at the emails Ray receives and there is enough evidence!

Also consider this, how can anyone be entrusted to the insights of God and the Knowledge of God and the Mind of Christ if they were harbouring competitive ambition to be seen of men, or cultivating deep hidden betrayals nursed on the alter of the heart in self appeasing idolatry? The deceived and blind are so pitiful, naked, blind and wretched and when they experience this, oh woe will be to them as Jesus said and that we should pity them for and begin to ask for that same Spirit of Christ who died for us while yet we were sinners. We are no better than the blind just because we have a little bit more insight than they do. We are more accountable for the talents we have and from us much is required. It is easy to gloat, feel high and self satisfied. Jesus cautioned His Disciples from feeling gratified because the evil spirits were subject to them. He advised them rather to be glad for their names are enrolled in Heaven rather.  Lukle 10 : 20 This is a major insight to discern to turn away from the carnal sweet taste of being right or avenged.

 Ray does not hate anyone. I truly believe this. Jesus cried for Jerusalem. He did not just sniff for Jerusalem. Those who hated and despised Jesus passionately in wrath filled self righteousness, they wanted Him crucified. They planned it. They connived and plotted and held secret meetings to arrange it. Jesus preached healed and prayed. Quite a difference! I know that Ray teaches and talks with God all day every day. Jesus did not hate or despise His adversary or enemy. He warned, cautioned and rebuked His enemy and Adversary. Quite a difference! This difference will be unveiled when He returns. Like a mirror they shall see themselves as they are and the chastisement will be intense. There is no place for complacency luke warm sniffs or self aggrandizing hate for our adversary.

Working day by day to answer, rebuke, edify and caution those against the very real woe of their houses falling divided upon them is a labor of love not hate. This labor of love is not idle, disinterested, aloof or luke warm and bears no hate for the deceived. Woe is them who wage war but love has to be us who wage patience, endurance, mercy and pity in the Calvery path to Christ. Ray has laid down his life to help his enemies. That he says he would die for the sheep he has been given to care for and the fact that there ARE STILL SOME SHEEP OUT THERE,  is a real joy! It is so precious to believe and know how to love without hate and still be able to rebuke, caution and admonish and take the time, as is given to Ray to do, to do so as he does all day, day in and day out!

Put another way here is a quote from a dear Brother:

It's one thing for us to just say "oh yes, we are the elect and we will reign over the church and they will be in torment but we will show them mercy."  But it's a whole 'nother thing to identify with them, to intercede for them, to be willing to go through spiritual torment and tribulation in the hopes that we will be in a position to show them mercy; to carry our cross for them, to lay down our lives for our enemies. 

We really must move past looking at the church, sitting in judgment, mocking their (obviously heretical) beliefs, and just setting up a shelter like Jonah and sitting back and waiting to watch them be judged. 

Just think if that was the approach that Christ took with us!  But thankfully, that is not the approach He took. He identified with us, poured out His blood for us, carried His cross for us, and eventually died for us, His enemies.

Think of some of the worst spiritual torment and tribulation you've gone through during your growth process (and I believe the only way to grow spiritually is to endure these tribulations), and when you think of that, realize that you have gone through that to identify with those in the church, what they  will experience when they are judged.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 05:39:48 PM by Arcturus »
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