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Deborah-Leigh:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6936.0.html

I read through what Harris presented.

I am not posting this to put Harris on a stool to throw our tomatoes at him. On the contrary. It is fascinating to see how much theology interupts what he is trying to convey.

It is discernable to see where he falls flat in his untested assumptions that Adam was created in the image of God and there after FELL from Grace. We know that Adam and Eve were created carnal and did not FALL from anything but did exactly what God knew they would do and that was disobey Him and eat of the fruit from the tree of Good and Evil.

Then the choice we have as seen to come out of our own supreme free will to contradict God or even to surprise Him like it is taught that happened when Satan decided to go against God and Eve decided to disobey. No such thing! We know Lucifer is not Satan.

I am not writing this to show up Harris or ridicule his effort to teach. What is edifying is that his presentation is loaded with untested assumptions. No doubt through the foolishness of his preaching he will be reaching some who believe.

What I find interesting after discarding 9/10's of what he writes, the Scriptures stand sure and true regardless of what he assumes they mean or say.

I enjoyed that Harris presents the Scriptures as alive and addressing each one of us individually.  Perhaps this is because I believe and yet through all the foolishness, I find I BELIEVE. I do not believe Harris or agree with his ideas and untested allegations. I can believe that the Word of God is alive, not dead and that we who believe will be able to see past the dross and shadow that veils the ever present all knowing Way Truth and Life that is Christ Jesus yesterday today and tomorrow.

By contrast the temptation comes to see self as grand and above Harris but actually we are to know too, that one day, even Harris will be blessed to see, repent and discern Christ which is what his thoughts seem to aspire intellectually to achieve once all the error visible to us in his teachings, is discared.

It is for us to pity our fate that we can not make him see anything but we can aspire to the confidence of knowing one day he will get it.  ;D I think then he might feel very chastised for the errors he is "teaching" right now.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Deborah-Leigh:


I see 50 people have read this thread and still no one has responded. I think a clarification would be appropriate at this point and what comes to mind to share is what a Dear Brother wrote to me recently.  I believe this better puts into perspective what I have tried to communicate in my own words. Here is the insight shared with me from my Brother quote :

....if someone needs to be warned of judgment, warn them of judgment.  If someone is more gentle, then patiently and gently instruct them, with less talk of judgment. 

I believe we should learn to handle each person and situation appropriately, in the hopes that they can escape the divided house that will soon fall upon them.

We wouldn't want to beat a meek and feeble soul over the head with all kinds of threatening judgment talk, just as we wouldn't want to preach lovey dovey mercy to a person who is stubborn and stiff necked.  For a Christian who is not very well versed in the scriptures, we wouldn't want to start spewing all sorts of technical scriptural stuff, because they wouldn't grasp it, or we might even perhaps choke them to death.  For someone who does have a deeper scriptural knowledge, we can afford to get into more meatier issues of the Word.  For someone who has just tragically lost a family member unexpectedly, it's probably not a good idea to focus on God's sovereignty and control over all evil and pain and suffering, because that might turn them away from God.  We would want to focus on other aspects of His character that may be more comforting for them at that particular moment.  We must be patient and look at the big picture when ministering to others.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

We can't beat or forcefeed our fellow servants.  We must have discernment about all situations.  We must learn to "give them their food allowance at the proper time."

I see Ray being able to discern exactly how he should best respond to the emails he gets. Ray does not upbraid a person for asking questions but he does warn anyone who is attacking, slandering, twisting and abusing the Word of God. We know from those who have met Ray and know him personally that Ray has no bitterness or vengeance towards any one and that he is not angry or personally offended by anyone. What Ray does is respond to the variety of ways in which people confront the Word of God.

There were so many errors in Harris "teaching" and that Ray took the time to even respond to him shows great love for the Truth and endurance to teach a deceived person that we all have been at one time.  :)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Robin:
Your post was thought provoking Arcturus.

It brought back many memories. First of all I've had to ask forgiveness for all the times I taught or spoke of unscriptual lies in my youth. There is no way to go back and correct it all so I put it in God's hands. I am very careful now when sharing truth. If I don't know something for sure I say "I don't know". Our words are very important and we are accountable.

When I am going through a crisis or tragedy I want brothers and sisters to tell me truth. Even if that truth is hard. It brings me comfort to know that God is in control. It brought me great comfort when I found Ray to learn that God created evil and uses it for his plan and purposes. I did not like believing that evil sprang forth from a rebellion and God allowed it. It brought resentments against God because I felt like a pawn in the middle of a battle between God and Evil. God didn't seem to be winning. It was a great test of my faith right before finding Ray when I asked God if this was just some kind of a game. I didn't have the answer, but I had to believe that God was good and there was an answer. I found that answer here.

I remember the day my brother and sister-in-law gave birth to their daughter. I was in the room with them when the doctor came in and told us she had down syndrome. I spoke the truth that it was God's will and they were able to hear that because my brother knew God was sovereign. We felt the power of God in that room that day. There are so many times I wish I could speak that truth when someone is going through a terrible crisis. A hug and tears just doesn't bring that kind of peace. Not many can hear it. Telling them that God will take care of them through the crisis is as much as they can hear and that can be difficult when the "why" questions come to the surface.

Thank you Arcturus.

Deborah-Leigh:
Dear MG

Thank you for your responce.

I agree that I too missed the mark through rebellion that conceived belief in error and set false examples idolising them to be holy and true. What a travesty! The chastisement of knowing that wrongs can not be humanly mastered, settled or defended before God is in deed humiliating!

Right now I am seeing powerful words of Comfort in what the Lord says in Hos 2 : 23....and I will have love, pity and mercy...

Hos 3 : 5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and His Goodness in the latter days....

I feel like I am entering in my own latter days right now! ...and your words of Comfort express the Love, Pity and Mercy that is the Nature and Presence of the Lord.

The resentments the carnal can feel against God is real agony diffused only through His Mercy. This Peace does surpass worldly peace and understanding for a reason. It is peace upon the death of the carnal and not nourishment to satisfaction of carnal cravings.  This reminds me of the Quail that God sent the Hebrews because the bread from heaven was not enough. Then the snakes came and they died again.

I really feel as if my life right now is experiencing areas in the Bible that have been recorded for my admonition. Comforting words are so precious! They will be precious to those who have to experience the chastisement for errors they will have to pass through if not now, later!

Mercy!

Peace to you Sister and thank you for sharing.

Arc.

Samson:
Thankyou Arcturus for this Thread,

                                                I'm one of those fifty people that viewed this thread and didn't respond, will try to do so on my dayoff, need my thinking cap and alittle reflection before making a comment, however, what I read was very interesting, give me some pondering time, probably Monday, if God willing.

                                  Your Bother, Samson.

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