This mortal and this corruption.

[Truth101]

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on the resurrection of the unbelieving?

We know that the elect will be raised and they will recieve immortality and a glorified body. Now, my concern is, would the spiritually uncircumcised not need the same body in order to be alive through the judgment of the lake of fire?

I bring this up since we know that the soul needs a body and the breath (spirit) of god to give the body and soul life. Now, when they are resurrected they too would need a body so exectly what happens at this point.

I wanted to address this because there is much more that can be learned by engaging in this discussion. If Ray has something on this that would be awsome.

Arturus and Kat, God has given you a gift to find things fast. I tell ya, I have the hardest time finding subjects I need to review and you guys are just...BAM...BAM...BAM, out with it. My hats off to you .

Any help would be great, God Bless, Dave

Note: I just noticed another thread dealing with this subject and it is confirmed by Ray that the wicked will not reciev the glorified incorruptable bodies although, my question regarding a body being needed in some way still stands. If there any mention of the body they will be resurrected in? I know all these words are spirit and that is the only way to understand. I would just like to see if someone has some spiritual food for me here. I'm hungry...

[Robin]

Hi Truth101,

Ray mentioned it briefly in an email and we had 2 threads going on the subject.
I can't find any of them. Maybe it would be a good question to email to Ray.

If I remember right, Ray said those who aren't chosen will be raised physical. Don't quote me on that though. My memory isn't what it used to be.

[Kat]

Hi Dave,

Here is the email I think M.G. was talking about.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6244.0.html ------

    Dear Beau:  It is only the "we"--the believing elect of God that will be resurrected with spiritual bodies (I Cor. 15:42-54).  Hitler will not be resurrected with a POWERFUL, GLORIOUS, SPIRITUAL BODY! (I Cor. 15:42-44. Those with these GLORIOUS bodies are the "we"  of verse 49, not the wicked and unbelieving who will be resurrected to JUDGMENT.
    God be with you,
    Ray
-----------------------------------------------------

Why do you think people would need to be spirit to endure the Lake of fire judgment?  The ELect are going through judgment now. 

1Peter 4:17  For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?   

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[mharrell08]

Why do you think people would need to be spirit to endure the Lake of fire judgment?  The ELect are going through judgment now. 

1Peter 4:17  For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?   

mercy, peace and love
Kat

I totally agree with that...and if you think about it, Jesus raised Lazarus (John Ch. 12) and the little girl (Matt. Ch. 9) from the dead into whole, physical bodies. Now then, since judgement begins now at the house of Lord, this resurrection of these two can be a forshadow to what is to come if you will. It is totally assuming, but I would think for that girl to go through that experience is our Father bringing her into the truth and of course that would mean also into judgement. So here could be an example of one being resurrected into a physical body to go through judgement now and to later receive a spiritual body. Like I said, it may be assuming but as soon as i read through this post this example came to me. Mods, please be gentle if I am off track as I am still a newbie. 


Marques

[Kat]

Hi Marques,

So here could be an example of one being resurrected into a physical body to go through judgement now and to later receive a spiritual body.

These resurrections that Christ preformed on earth were "that they may believe that You sent Me."

John 11:41  Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.
v. 42  And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me."
v. 43  Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth!"

It is not the resurrection by which a person is saved, but by the indwelling of His Spirit.

Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Those people that were resurrected BEFORE Christ died could not be reconciled by His shed blood, because He had not died yet.

Rom 5:8  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
v. 9  Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
v. 10  For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Only if God chooses somebody and puts Christ's Spirit in them will they be in the first resurrection.  And that was only offered after Pentecost.

John 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The repentance and judgment that one goes through is learning to live as Jesus Christ lived, being made into His image.  That can only be accomplished with His Spirit indwelling, now for the few and in the Lake of fire for the many.

Here is an email where Ray touches on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4040.0.html -----

  I teach STRONGLY throughout ALL MY PAPERS, spiritual baptism, spiritual circumcision, spiritual communion, spiritual repentance, etc.  Where have I ever ever suggested or even hinted that ANYONE will be "saved REGARDLESS?"  That is nonsense. I have not even ever thought such an absurd thing. I have taught and STATED hundred and hundreds of times in my writing and emails that unless and until one truly repents and lives a godly life through God's Holy Spirit, they will NEVER BE SAVED.  But the truth is, God shows many many places in His Word that He will bring all to repentance, and He will teach them godly living, etc. That is the WHOLE PURPOSE FOR THE JUDGMENT (Isa. 26:9).

        God be with you,
        Ray

[Truth101]

Hi My peeps. Sorry for the delay in replying but for some reason I am not getting notifications. I have them on but Im just not getting them. Anyways.....

Thanks for all the feedback. As I thought about it I came to wondering another thing but soon ofund the answer. I was going to ask what about those who have been cremated and scattered but then I realized that God made us from the dust and nothing is impossible with God. Even if He didnt use the same old bodies we have we may just have new ones. I say "we" but really mean "any who" are in the second ressurection.

Theres alot we are just not told and I guess faith is there to stop us from speculation where scripture isnt informative.

Anyways thanks alot for your replies. You have been a great help. I can never seem to find the right artical or email from Rays writings that answer these questions. I have read the entire bible-truths site and it looks as though I am going to have to read it again to freshen up.

Thanks again, Dave