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Author Topic: Working WITH Predestination  (Read 3934 times)

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joyful1

  • Guest
Working WITH Predestination
« on: April 05, 2008, 04:34:00 PM »

:D Hi everyone--
Acts 9:5
5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

"pricks" in Easton's 1897 Dictionary:
Goad an instrument used by ploughmen for guiding their oxen...The expression .. "It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks", i.e., against the goad, was proverbial for unavailing resistance to superior power.

I find myself "kicking against the pricks" every day of my life! I do this in a variety of ways, but mostly by complaining and worrying!

Once Paul understood WHO he was talking to, and WHAT was expected of him....he complied....immediately with the Father's will.  But then there's me (Joyce), with a pretty good idea of what is expected of me and certainly full knowledge of WHO I am talking to ....and I don't seem to have the common sense God gave a donkey....I STILL argue with him! ("Oh who will deliver me from the body of this death?")

In all of our trials and tribulations...God never seems to be any great big hurry!
I kept thinking: Paul MUST have been frantic, after experiencing what he did that day....HE NEEDED AN ANSWER AND HE NEEDED IT RIGHT THEN!!! But God tells him...go to the city and you'll get your answer there.

Now, here's the picture that comes to mind for me when thinking on these things....

An older, more mature grandfather can sit and unravel a tangled fishing line better than his hotheaded impatient little grandson. Why is that? I think it is because He "knows HOW to give good gifts to His children." The more wise and patient grandfather, ignores his fidgeting little grandson, wipes the sweat from his own brow, adjusts the straw hat to bring in a little more shade, then patiently proceeds to untangle the line.  HE KNOWS the wonderful feeling that will come with a good catch....HE KNOWS that this will give his grandson a good feeling of providing food for the family meal tonight....so he PATIENTLY gives this gift (of catching a fish) to his grandson.

He also LEADS his grandson THROUGH the pain and agony of watching some of the most horrible of life's experiences....hooking bait, setting and cleaning mouse traps, burying the family pet, gutting a deer....all necessary to the survival of the family....all horrible experiences. It is also the grandfather's gift to his grandson to lead him through these things and teach him not to fear....regardless of what happens.

PREDESTINATION to me....is God knowing HOW to give good gifts to His children...

Matthew 7:11
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

He takes care of us! There is no need to worry about tomorrow....it has a certain amount of "predestined evil" so to speak...in it....but that is for TOMORROW.....NOT for TODAY....you've got His mercies which are "new every morning" to take care of the evil for TODAY....so stop worrying about "TOMORROW."  His mercies will be new again in the morning....get some sleep!

And there is also no sense in "looking back" and regretting all those things that happened "back then"....WHATEVER HAPPENED....HAPPENED BECAUSE IT HAD TO BE THAT WAY, it was predestined to happen the way it did, as hard as it is to understand that sometimes....at least, this is my understanding at this point. There's no sense regretting what HAD to HAPPEN.

In allowing patience to have her perfect work in you.....(and I'm trying to do the same)....we should begin to experience a greater ability to WORK WITH not AGAINST that which is predestined for our lives.

Your thoughts on this?

My apologies for the length....
Joyce :)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 02:20:01 AM by joyful1 »
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2008, 05:58:07 PM »

My thoughts....totally inspired!

Here is what stood out for me. quote : ....to lead him through these things and teach him not to fear....regardless of what happens.

What comes to mind is dear Shadrach and Co. They were cast into the fire set seven times higher! Abraham took three days to journey with his son with the instruction to sacrifice him...what went through that heart? Mine would have been tormented beyond recognition....

In my life, God is showing me some equivalent things, well so it feels. So the admonition to recollect that His Mercies ARE NEW EVERY morning is wonderful and to get some sleep. Well that applies to me!

Thank you for a beautifully inspired and encouraging post.

Peace to you Sister

Arcturus :)
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2008, 08:26:12 PM »


Hi Joyce,

Quote
He takes care of us! There is no need to worry about tomorrow....it has a certain amount of "predestined evil" so to speak...in it....but that is for TOMORROW.....NOT for TODAY....you've got His mercies which are "new every morning" to take care of the evil for TODAY....so stop worrying about "TOMORROW."  His mercies will be new again in the morning....get some sleep!

Mat 10:28  "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).

If someone is killed they die and go to the grave, unconscious of anything.  It is the same for all that die, their spirit goes back to God that gave it (Ecc. 12:7) to keep it.  Now our soul is as good as destroyed-abolish-perish in the grave and if it were not for God resurrecting us all from the grave, it would remain there.

Mat 10:29  "Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

I think a sparrow could be considered one of the smallest and most numerous of birds, very cheap too.  So if God is concerned with every single one of these little creatures, how much more is He concerned for us?
 
Mat 10:30  "But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

It seems such an insignificant things how many hairs we have, but it expresses that if the least of matters in our life is regulated, then everything else in our lives must be of greater value.

Mat 10:31  "So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.

With God watching over us so carefully, indeed why should we fear?
   
This is such a good thing you have shared  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Little Joe

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2008, 08:32:31 PM »

Joyce,

I truly liked everything you said.  I need not add anything to it, just that God having everything under His plan really takes the load off, don't it!  ;)

Peace
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joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2008, 02:33:59 AM »

:D Right, Little Joe! That is what brought JOY back into my life!  :D

Thanks Arcturus and Kat for your comments! Predestination is one of the most difficult things for us to accept.  And yet, the Father knows each of us better than we know ourselves....He knows what MUST be done...

Joyce :)
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joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2008, 10:53:51 AM »

To ALL:  The following freed me to think on predestination with HOPE in my heart.....

"All that happens was intended to happen, and all that does not happen was not intended to happen. Here is wisdom.

We have seen that not even Satan can go against God’s intentions. Satan needs permission from God to do his dirty work. Since God is responsible (but not accountable—seeing that nothing He does is without a great and beneficial purpose), God takes responsibility for His whole creation, and that is why everything will turn out perfect for every one of God’s creatures."


from http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html

Joyce :)

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brandon h

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2008, 05:15:03 PM »


For by grace you are saved through faith,and that not of yourselves: it IS the gift of God.

Not of works, lest anyone should boast.

For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God predestined beforehand that we should walk in them.
      Ephesians 2 8-10
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joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2008, 01:22:01 PM »

Amen! Brandon!
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kweli

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 10:29:06 AM »

Great postings everybody

Psalm 139

13 For you created my inmost being;
       you knit me together in my mother's womb.

    14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
       your works are wonderful,
       I know that full well.

    15 My frame was not hidden from you
       when I was made in the secret place.
       When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

    16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
       All the days ordained for me
       were written in your book
       before one of them came to be.


Great topic Joyce

All Glory to Him


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phazel

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 11:18:11 AM »

:D Hi everyone--
Acts 9:5
5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.




Where does the (it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks) come from?


The CLV doesn't even have that part of the verse.

" Ac 9:5 Yet he said,  "Who art Thou, Lord?"  Yet *He said,  "I'  am Jesus Whom you'  are persecuting."

And scripture at scripture4all.org doesn't either,  but the Authorized Version module that comes with the program does have that in it.
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Falconn003

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 11:34:13 AM »

Douay-Rheims Bible
Who said: Who art thou, Lord? And he: I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. It is hard for thee to kick against the goad.

goad (gōd)
n.
 1. A long stick with a pointed end used for prodding animals.
 2. An agent or means of prodding or urging; a stimulus.


Perhaps give a clearer picture in how " kick against the pricks is meant.
Altough it does seem to be an later added portion to scripture.

Rodger
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2008, 12:47:16 PM »


Hi phazel,

Quote
Where does the (it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks) come from?

I do find the commentaries useful on some occasions  :)

Taken from Albert Barn's notes on the Bible -
The word translated “pricks” here κέντρον; kentron means properly “any sharp point which will pierce or perforate,” as the sting of a bee, etc. But it commonly means an ox-goad, a sharp piece of iron stuck into the end of a stick, with which the ox is urged on. These goads among the Hebrews were made very large. Thus, Shamgar killed 600 men with one of them, Jdg_3:31. Compare 1Sa_13:21. The expression “to kick against the prick” is derived from the action of a stubborn and unyielding ox kicking against the goad. And as the ox would injure no one by it but himself; as he would gain nothing, it comes to denote “an obstinate and refractory disposition and course of conduct, resisting the authority of him who has a right to command, and opposing the leadings of Providence, to the injury of him who makes the resistance.” It denotes “rebellion against lawful authority, and thus getting into greater difficulty by attempting to oppose the commands to duty.”
-----------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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phazel

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2008, 01:06:42 PM »


 ok, here is where I get a bit confused the scripture for all site doesn't have that word in the text they show, the CLV doesn't have that addition to scripture, so I was wondering why it was added, or if the clv is wrong .
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2008, 03:23:32 PM »


Hi Phazelo,

Interesting I had not noticed that.  It is not in Tischendorf's list of spurious Scriptures.  But notice that it is in the account in Acts.

Acts 26:14 Besides, at all of us falling down to the earth, I hear a voice saying to me in the Hebrew vernacular, 'Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting Me? Hard is it for you to be kicking against the goads!'" (CLV)

Here is what Robertson says about this -
It is hard for thee to kick against the goad (sklēron soi pros kentra laktizein). Genuine here, but not in chapters 9, 22. A common proverb as Aeschylus Ag. 1624: Pros kentra mē laktize. “It is taken from an ox that being pricked with a goad kicks and receives a severer wound” (Page). Cf. the parables of Jesus (Mat_13:35). Blass observes that Paul’s mention of this Greek and Latin proverb is an indication of his culture. Besides he mentions (not invents) it here rather than in chapter 22 because of the culture of this audience. Kentron means either sting as of bees (II Macc. Act_14:19) and so of death (1Co_15:55) or an iron goad in the ploughman’s hand as here (the only two N.T. examples). Note plural here (goads) and laktizein is present active infinitive so that the idea is “to keep on kicking against goads.” This old verb means to kick with the heel (adverb lax, with the heel), but only here in the N.T. There is a papyrus example of kicking (laktizō) with the feet against the door.
-------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2008, 06:47:36 AM »

You too, Moises, and everyone here...have a good TODAY!
Now God knows exactly what will happen today in each of our lives....
we do not....so "NOT KNOWING" means walking by faith....NOT by sight!

The "seers" , the prophets, had an especially heavy burdern of "seeing/knowing" things in advance.  The reason that prophesying is so difficult and dangerous is because of the implications.  "Lookouts" on the towers were given the responsibility of "warning the people" in advance.....less their blood be upon them.

So I am thinking that it is better NOT to know the future than it is to know.  Yet we are told to "make known thy requests...." So, we hope and pray and listen to the still small voice that reminds us to pray according to the Father's will.....else we pray in vain.  Just my thoughts.....along with my request that you all truly have a very good day today!
Joyce :)


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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Working WITH Predestination
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2008, 01:40:02 PM »

This was a great thread!  I loved the grandpa story too.

 The love my grand daughter has for my hubby is a wonder to behold.  She loves him and trusts him for everything.  She KNOWS he would not do anything to hurt her!!!

Thats how we are to love and trust our Lord....as a child.  Then we won't worry about tomorrow!

((Easy to write, harder to do))
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