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No Comment Other Than Strange.....Bizarre
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Dave UK on April 12, 2008, 05:42:36 AM ---
I'm not suggesting anything remotely like that, but I recognise that our knowledge about the mind ,memory ,and consciousnes even in this day and age remains limited. There is plenty we don't know ,that's all.
--- End quote ---
Hi Dave,
I am with you here Brother, I find that the more I learn the more I become acutely aware of how little I really know, each answer summons up at least two more questions, I find this to be true especially in matters spiritual.
There were some very interesting responses here and I always give great weight to Beloved's expert and professional opinions and even though our present knowledge of biology would preclude this type of phenomena as being "real" it is very real to the person who is experiencing it.
I found myself having a great deal of empathy for this woman, to even think of going through something as invasive as a heart/lung transplant makes me cringe, literally. To have profound changes in my tastes, attitude and even my physical bearing in it's wake would be extremely difficult to brush aside cavalierly.
This certainly is an interesting journey, it is a strange and even bizarre experience, isn't it?
Peace,
Joe
hebrewroots98:
Excellent info beloved, thanks for going into detail for us; and eggi, you are correct, blood donor recipients do not take on the traits of their donors, (although many have claimed this before.) (I cannot donate blood due to the DU (depleted Uranium) that is in my blood...thankfully I am an honest person who would never donate my blood and take the chances of poisnoning someone else...of course the blood banks never check for such things either!) Also, eggi, I love your point about how God would have to retain our hearts in order to retain our personalities (if this lady's story was true)...and we all know that that is NOT going to happen...thankfully! ::) ;D
Kat:
Interesting story and bizarre for sure. But I do not think it has to do with her 'new' heart at all. As Beloved said, but it is just a automatic piece of pumping meat. I believe the woman is sincere, but I do not believe that this new heart is the problem. Where I believe this matter lies is in the mind of this woman.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
I believe that these "principalities" are the root cause of most all of the strange and bizarre occurrences in this world.
It is the mind that is these "rulers of the darkness of this world" have a playground. I mean there is no limit to what the mind is capable of thinking up and to have these "principalities" constantly seeking whom they can devour (1Peter 5:08). Well they are indeed devouring the sound reasoning of many people, because people do believe in some foolish things.
Psa 81:12 So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts, to follow their own counsels.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
hebrewroots98:
Amen to that Kat! That sums up the whole issue here (for myself anyway.) 8) :D
hillsbororiver:
Hi all,
Great insight Kat, I agree the mind is the devil's playground, especially if one is not tethered to Christ. My feeling is that it does not really matter if this is caused by the transplanted heart or not, the woman is experiencing this and it is very real to her and those around her as well as some other heart transplant patients.
As Dave wrote earlier in the thread we still do not know everything about how the body and mind interact with each other, as history has repeatedly shown us yesterday's facts can become tomorrow's follies.
Ever hear of "phantom pain" syndrome? This is also something that is illogical with varying opinions and theories but is very real to those who experience it.
Phantom Pain: Location and Causation
Hillary Bobys
After amputation, individuals may experience feelings of the removed limb still being attached to their body, either partially (the fingers are felt, but the arm is not) or fully (1). These sensations, known as phantom limb syndrome or phantom pain, have been the subject of many debates in determining where and how such sensations arise. Phantom pain is described as "cramping, shooting, aching, hand clenched in a tight fist, toes out of joint, frozen or rigid joints, or any combination of these" (1) and usually subsides within a year after surgery. Another common sensation is "telescoping", where the hand or foot is felt as though it is directly attached to the stump (2). This shortening of the removed limb is considered a good sign because it does not usually occur with phantom pain (3). All of these sensations are quite frequent, however, and many websites provide information on how to help alleviate and prevent pain (1).
Amputees are not the only people who have phantom sensations; those with spinal cord injuries, peripheral nerve injury, diabetic neuropathy, and stroke survivors all report similar feelings (4). In each of these instances, deafferentations of the nerves occur, thereby destroying pathways for information to reach the brain. It is research on such patients that will enable researchers to find therapy and medication to alleviate phantom sensations and pain.
One structure commonly implicated in phantom limb syndrome is the motor cortex. The motor cortex is the region of the brain that sends information to motorneurons by representing a map of the body in the brain. Some researchers believe that the nerve cells that served the amputated limb reorganize after amputation to be used by other parts of the body. Others, however, suspect that the brain reorganizes, yet continues to represent the entire limb even after amputation. Data on both of these possibilities exist. Researchers have been able to produce phantom sensations "by stimulating the region of the thalamus found to represent the phantom limb" (5). To counter these effects, it has been suggested that the production of anti-growth factor be stimulated. This would, in turn, prevent new growth and discontinue the effects of the removed limb (5).
Yet, phantom pain can occur by touching other areas of the body (6). Brain imaging has shown that new connections are formed so that "the cortex reorganizes and the neurons that were responding to... input start to respond to other parts of the arm" (6). One may surmise from the research that indeed some sort of reorganization of neurons is taking place to best adapt the body to its new circumstances. Phantom pain is central pain and, therefore, does not respond to substances that block peripheral pain. One researcher suggests that the only way to treat phantom pain is by lesioning the brain centers (6). This is the path that one man took to alleviate his chronic pain after six years of narcotics treatment. In a five-hour surgery, his physician cauterized his spine in 92 places, successfully relieving the pain (7).
Other treatments for phantom pain are subhypnotic propofol testing and extradural cortical stimulation to the primary motor cortex (8). Both of these treatments rely on evidence found from experiments involving the parietal lobe, which is the area of the brain where one processes the most abstract neural functions such as body sensations (including pain) and logic. In more the more extreme cases, such as the man mentioned above, neurectomy, rhizotomy, dorsal root entry zone lesions, chordotomy, and thalamotomy may also be possible routes in pain relief (3). There is also an indication, however, that simple activities such as stroking, tapping, or squeezing the limb, exercising the limb, wearing a prosthesis, shrinker, or ace bandage all may help alleviate phantom pain.
New research is pointing to phantom pain and its associations with spasticity as a means for treatment. GABA, an inhibitory neurotransmitter, is used to treat spasticity and may be a viable option for the treatment of phantom limb pain as well, because of its anti-nociceptive capability (4). Nonciceptors are the receptor cells that respond selectively to noxious stimulation. When anti-nociception is induced (through a drug called baclofen), it reduces the pain threshold, whereas analgesia suppresses the actual pain sensation (4). Baclofen is particularly effective for patients suffering from deafferentation (amputees and spinal cord injury patients) and may be an option other than surgery for those suffering from phantom pain.
Stemming from ideas in phantom limb research, questions of the body's self-awareness arise. Those describing phantom limb tell of definite outlines and movements coming from a part of the body no longer there. Spatial mechanisms in the brain must be interacting in some way with movement mechanisms even after amputation (9). The implications of these ideas are far reaching. If an adult's brain can reorganize to accommodate to a new situation, the possibilities for research in neural flexibility expands immensely. In addition, treatment for phantom pain may be more accessible to patients in the future and prepare those in medicine with ways to prevent the pain (3) and treat these patients.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro00/web1/Bobys.html
The following is informative as well;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_limb
Peace,
Joe
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