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Author Topic: Teach/Debate  (Read 5327 times)

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« on: April 17, 2008, 08:26:25 PM »

    Dear Pastor Harris:  I will make a few COMMENTS in your latest email to me:
    Mr. Smith
    I just recently come across your forum and seen a copy of an email that you sent me on critiqueing a paper I wrote about the tree of life. Again I would like to respond by saying that I wasnt looking for your critique and also,  if you are going to pick through mine or other peoples writtings and try to destroy their insight or revealation of the the scripture by giving your own version of what you think it might say, (Which I have yet to make sense of)then I believe you should open up your forum topics (other peoples writings) for debate by the original authors.
    COMMENT:  No, Harris, we do not allow people to teach on our site or on our form. I have a very very strong need to protect any sheep that God has entrusted us with, and only over my dead body will any wolves enter into this flock in an area where I can provide protection.  Also, if your "insight or revelation of the Scriptures" is "destroyed" by my critiques, it is destroyed by the Scriptures that I use.  I showed you from the SCRIPTURES that when a man dies, he is DEAD. I gave you that out of the very mouth of God Himself, and YET you deny it. You DESPISE not only the messenger, Harris, but you DESPISE the very Word of God that contradicts your foolish teachings.
     Unless you are ill prepared for a public debate with the one who has studied the topic and are afraid of being seen only as an anti-christian rhetoric whose only desire is to destroy the church.
    COMMENT:  You know, Pastor Harris, you are almost too bitter and filled with animosity toward me to even hold a conversation. Your statement that my "only desire is to destroy the church" is really slanderous in every meaning of the word.  You need to do a little repenting here.  I destroy "damnable heresies" (II Pet. 2:1). I do NOT destroy people. If you fall with your heresy, then that is your problem not mine. I did not attack you, I merely Scripturally pointed out to you that when Jesus "DIED for the sins of the world," He was DEAD. And the dead "know not ANYTHING" (Ecc. 9:5).  But you despise these Scriptures of God, and you now slander the messenger that brings them to you.  When Jesus died for the sins of the world, He was dead. He did not skip town and go to live it up with thief in paradise by some big rock candy mountain and milk shake waterfalls. He was DEAD in the tomb. They put "JESUS" in the tomb, Harris!
    The women at the tomb said  "they have taken away MY LORD" (John 20:13). Don't you demean that down to "they have taken away the cadaver of Jesus."  Some "cadaver" is not the savior of the world, Harris, JESUS CHRIST is the Saviour of the world. JESUS CHRIST died for the sins, but you and most of Christendom can't even get this part of the gospel Scripturally correct. And when shown the truth, you explode in a fit slanderous accusations. Unbelievable.

      Because out of all that I have read from you and your {critiques of others) I find that most all of it is gibberish and makes no sense at all. And none of it (your so called critiques) lines up with Gods word.
    COMMENT:  Oh really?  And you are prepared to expose all my unscriptural "gibberish," are you? ARE YOU?  Well put your money where you mouth is. I want you to find just ONE statement of mine that is false and unscriptural and then give us TWO SCRIPTURES that prove it is false.

    I will now post this on our Forum for the whole world to see, and we will wait for your ONE QUOTE and TWO SCRIPTURES..............................................

    You can spew your anger filled, arrogant, and grossly misinterpreted views all that you
    COMMENT:  Excuse me?  "MY" spewing of anger filled arrogance and grossly misinterpreted views?  Maybe you should read my reply to you at the bottom of this email, and then re-read this diatribe of your email to me.  There is no "anger filled arrogance and spewing of anger and grossly misinterpreted views" in my little critique of the beginning of your paper. Read it. Show me where you see these things. They are not there, but it makes you feel better to falsely accuse of such things because you are now between a rock and a hard place. If you cannot even admit that when Jesus DIED for the sins of the world, that He was DEAD, then you have no business pretending to be a "Pastor" over God's sheep!  You despise me, because I showed you where you are Scripturally wrong, and now you also despise the Scriptures.
     want but until you are ready to debate those authors you are only; one hiding in the dark waiting to devour and destroy yet another revelation of God. I believe the correct term is ANTI-CHRIST or beast.
    COMMENT:  Oh please, Harris, you wouldn't know an ANTI-CHRIST if you were having lunch with one.
    PS   ONE QUOTATION (NO, I did not a say some paraphrased nonsense, I said one "QUOTATION" from any paper on my site, and then TWO SCRIPTURES that prove my statement false. We will now all hold our breath................................................................................................
    Here then is my original reply to your email to me, that you find so terribly evil and offensive:


    Dear Harris:  I do not mean to put a kink in your armor, but I will give you just a little instruction on one of your major premises:

    "Lu:23:42: And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. The thief was asking Jesus to remember him when he came into or established his kingdom {The millennial reign} and notice the unexpected answer he received.

    Lu:23:43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. He said today, not tomorrow or a thousand years from now but that today he would be with him in paradise. Now your answer would normally be ‘oh yeah’ when we die we will be with him..."
    If this verse of Scripture is true according to your interpretation, then it contradicts most of the major teachings in the entire Bible concerning, repentance, overcoming, producing much fruit, enduring to the end, and resurrection of the dead.  One cannot pervert the entire Word of God by merely misplacing a comma (,).  Here are better renderings of Luke 23:43:

    "And Jesus said to him, 'Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise.'" (Concordant Literal New Testament).

    "And he said unto him—Verily, I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise" (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible).

    Even you gave Scripture showing that the wages of sin is "DEATH."  Why do you then deny it in your paper.  "Jesus DIED for our sins according to the Scriptures."  He was not merely "crucified for our sins."  No, HE D-I-E-D. And when people DIE, Harris, they are DEAD. I can't believe that it would be necessary for me to provide a Scripture to prove such an elementary concept, but I will:

    Jos 1:1 Now after the DEATH of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying, Jos 1:2 Moses My servant is DEAD..."
    Well there you have from God Almighty Himself.  When a person DIES, he is DEAD.  So when you change that to some other unscriptural nonsense, you are treading in dangerous territory.  Jesus was NOT in the Christian hell of eternal torture, nor was He preaching to spirits in some pagan hell, neither was he in a place called "paradise."  Jesus was doing in the tomb exactly what He was prophesied to do and what He was commissioned to do by His Father--He died, and was therefore DEAD, until His Father Resurrected Him FROM THE DEAD.
    Jesus' Father did not resurrect Jesus of Hell or from Paradise.  Jesus was DEAD in the tomb until early Sunday morning, and so was the thief DEAD.
    Now the difference between these two deaths is that Jesus was resurrected from the dead, but the thief was NOT--he is still dead, awaiting resurrection.  If Jesus was not DEAD when He DIED for our sins, then you don't have a Saviour, Harris! And neither does anyone else!  This is mighty impor tant stuff you are contradicting in your paper.  Do you not pay attention to the many hundreds of Scriptures that refute you paper?....

    Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the DEAD, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
    Harris:  If Jesus "rose from the DEAD" how say you that He was NOT EVEN DEAD TO BEGIN WITH?  If Jesus "rose from the DEAD" how say you that
    that there is no resurrection of the the DEAD THIEF," but that he is presently LIVING in a place called "paradise?"
    I am sorry I don't have time to critique your entire paper, but I receive many requests to read hundreds and thousands of pages of papers, books, Internet sites, etc., but I just am not able. So I cannot comment on your entire paper. However,  I hope my little critique on this one point does not anger you.
    God be with you,
    PS   Another minor point:  The thief did not ASK to be with Jesus in Paradise, did he?  NO, he did not. He asked Jesus to "remember him when Jesus came in His kingdom."  Now then, Did Jesus say, "Yes, of course, I tell you that TODAY you with be with Me in My kingdom?'  Did Jesus answer Him thus?  NO.  Well what in the world then did Jesus mean that the thief would be with Him [at some future date, not "today," but "shall be with Me," which is future tense] "in paradise?"  Ah, that is the subject of one of my upcoming papers, and it is about as far removed from the Christian teaching and your teaching as anything could be.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 07:32:36 AM by Dennis Vogel »
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