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Author Topic: Adam and Eve DNA  (Read 14294 times)

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Danyool

  • Guest
Adam and Eve DNA
« on: April 24, 2008, 11:30:50 AM »

Im having trouble getting my head round How Adam and Eve bore Cain and Abel, and then they had wives. But these wifes must have been daughters of Adam and Eve. So this makes them sisters of Cain and Abel. It is dangerous to cross DNA (incest) and this must have happened many times. Does anyone know how this is possible and for them to live for 100's of years would they have been deformed??

God bless you all

Dan
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phazel

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 11:33:54 AM »

Personally I think Adam and Eve are a Metaphor for the human race and God created humanity to begin with rather that only two literal people.


In Genesis is says that he is "Creating" Mankind in his image,   first the physical then the spiritual.

Creating mankind is the physical, Adam and Eve are the spiritual symbols.


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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 12:59:41 PM »

Personally I think Adam and Eve are a Metaphor for the human race and God created humanity to begin with rather that only two literal people.


In Genesis is says that he is "Creating" Mankind in his image,   first the physical then the spiritual.

Creating mankind is the physical, Adam and Eve are the spiritual symbols.





thats heresy :o ;D JK.

if often think that too, for sure the spiritual message of adam and eve  is evident, and MOST important. :P

i find it most interesting that adam was created from dirt ""OUTSIDE"" the garden

and then placed IN the garden.  there is nothing to suggest there were not other humans

around at the time?


cool topic,


blessings
chuckt
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 01:01:02 PM by chuckt »
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phazel

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 01:24:05 PM »

A lot of the typical stories and thinking come from the belief that the bible must be literally true in order for it to be believed.

This is the reason that the 6000 year old earth creationist crowd must make scientific data fit the belief, rather than allowing scripture to spiritually fit our lives in spite of scientific statements that cannot be proven as  "truth".   

I remember a  JW coming by my house and asking me that question.   Basically the thinking is that we must be honest enough to believe that God demanded incestual relationships out of necessity and that he by his divine nature would protect the genetic problems we know today from such things.

At one time,  I did not see any  problem with that.  I believe that is one of the apologetic work arounds for such  a contradiction in Gods word on sexual purity.

In reality, when the bible is seen as it really is,  a spiritual metaphor, then there is no need for such a work around in the first place.


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KristaD

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 01:49:41 PM »

Yeah I kind of figured God made Adam and Eve first but then who's to say He didn't make other people too??? i mean He doesn't list every planet, star, or even animal so why would He list each person ???
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ericsteven

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 02:26:28 PM »

Hi all,

I'm pretty sure that Ray believes that Adam and Eve were literal people.  From Part 9 of the Lake of Fire series Ray writes:

  -  Satan entered Eden as "that Old Serpent [Satan]" and deceived Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. Satan didn’t sneak into the garden against God’s will. He performed a needful task with our first parents. God knew what Satan was going to do to Adam and Eve. God did not try to prevent it. It is all part of God’s master plan.  - 

Why would Ray refer to them as our first parents if he thought that they were only metaphorical?  He also refers to Adam and Eve as our "first parents" in Part A of "The Myth of Free Will" as well as others.  I believe he teaches that, yes, there are spiritual lessons to be learned from the account of Adam and Eve, but not that Adam and Eve themselves are simply metaphorical symbols that never really existed.  Mods, please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, the Scriptures tell us that Adam named his wife Eve because she was "the mother of all living" (Gen 3:20).  How could she be described in the Scriptures as "the mother of all living" if God had created other people outside the garden already? 

As far as the question concerning DNA:  No doubt that Adam and Eve were in perhaps all ways the most physically perfect specimans of the human race ever to live on the face of the earth.  Please don't confuse what I said there.  I understand that spiritually they were extremely weak, but physically their DNA would have been flawless.  It would take many, many, many years for the flaws and mutations that are present in our DNA today to begin to have an effect on the humans of that time.  So, I have no problem understanding that Cain married his sister and had children without deformities and such because their DNA would have been pretty much as close to pure as one can have.  It wasn't until the law of Moses (Leviticus 18-20) that God outlawed this practice of marrying your sister, perhaps because He knew that enough time had passed for genetic mutations and flaws to accrue enough to where they would begin to have a detrimental effect on those children born through brother/sister and other close blood relative unions.

And no, I am not a young earth creationist.  I agree with Ray that there are just as many flaws with that point of belief than there are with evolution.  Although I believe the earth to be much older than 6,000 years (i.e. the creation days are not literal 24 hour days), I don't think there is any reason to think that mankind's time on the earth from Adam to now is any more than 6,000 - 10,000 years. 

I look forward to Ray's discussion on these topics in September.

God bless,  Eric

Here's a reply from Ray on that same question:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4542.0.html

    Dear Teresa:

    It is amazing that such simple a question has stumped countless generations of believers.

    Cain obviously married one of His sisters. This practice was allowed in the early stages of man replenishing of the earth. Tradition tells us that Adam and Eve had SEVENTY children. They lived 900 years you know. "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years, and he begat sons AND DAUGHTERS"  (Gen. 5:4).

    God be with you,

    Ray
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KristaD

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 02:33:25 PM »

Hmmm that's very good point about Eve's name  ??? Never thought of that. I know they are literal people. The DNA thing makes sense too, but still not sure if I believe that He didn't make other people....
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2008, 02:34:44 PM »

Genesis 3:20

And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living



All came from Eve as all came from Adam.

Romans 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned



Morality passed from Adam to all his seed which is all of mankind. Has their been a seed from Adam that did not die? Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Matt 1:20) not by a man so He of course would not count (although he did DIE). These scriptures contradict the notion that God created others outside of Adam and Eve. All of humanity came from Adam and Eve.


Marques
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phazel

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2008, 02:56:03 PM »


"Romans 5:12"


If this is not a spiritual aspect, then it is indeed incorrect.   Eve Sinned first so why would it not be more accurate to say through  "one woman"?

If it is the literal we are talking about, then the sin entered the world through a woman.


"Anthropos"  is translated human.


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phazel

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 03:15:46 PM »



There is only "one" humanity or human race and there is only "one" spiritual  race because ALL is out of the "one" God.



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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2008, 03:23:17 PM »

Romans 5:12 states "death passed onto all men" not sin. Morality or death is what passed onto all mankind from Adam. We were all made "subject to vanity" and "carnal minded" so that is the reason we all sin and "not seek after God".


Gen 5:2

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created

Adam and Eve were called simply "Adam" by the Lord. Like a wife taking her husband's name if you will. So through "Adam" (Adam & Eve: 2 will become 1 flesh) death passed unto all mankind.
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2008, 03:37:16 PM »

The Mitochondrial Eve

Rebecca L. Cann


  Most urban North Americans are a bit like West African Pygmies. They have neither the interest nor the ability to trace their kinship back further than 3 generations. In contrast, some Samoans can produce pedigrees 20 generations long. History may count for so little to so many, but what about the future? Demographers estimate that an American male probably has less than a 20 percent chance that a direct descendant with the same last name will be alive 250 years from now. Human families just don't persist very long.
       
  If most lineages that we can actually identify ultimately die out, how is it possible that our species has survived for thousands of years? Recent research suggests that we are all directly linked through maternal genes to a nameless, faceless great-grandmother 200,000 years old, and scientists must now grapple with the implications of this deep penetration into human kinship. Astonishing as it may seem, molecular anthropology shows that all people alive today trace some of their genes to a single woman who was probably from Africa. This female may be the only common link in our species. She contributed a set of genes that has been passed on only by women, and through those genes, we are uncovering areas of the past that have been hidden from us by history, culture, and our own eyes.
       
        Scientific advances rarely proceed in straight lines, and the study of human evolution has been no exception. Yet the traditional portrayal of the fossil evidence of our ancestry gives the impression that scientists have reliably mapped the evolution of humans. It seems that once some messiness was sorted out 5 million years ago, there was a smooth steady development of the line. Although new molecular refinements provide ...

You can read the entire article here;

 http://www.worldandi.com/specialreport/1987/september/Sa13469.htm
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2008, 04:21:20 PM »


Hi Paul,

Quote
"Romans 5:12"


If this is not a spiritual aspect, then it is indeed incorrect.   Eve Sinned first so why would it not be more accurate to say through  "one woman"?

If it is the literal we are talking about, then the sin entered the world through a woman.

Adam was created first, Adam was not decieved 1 Tim 2:14, man is the head of the woman 1 Cor. 11:3.

God caused Eve to be deceived and she believed the Lie of the serpent, where as Adam was not decieved and ate because of his love for Eve, thus God said to Eve;

Gen 3:16  To the woman He said:
       "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
       In pain you shall bring forth children;
       Your desire shall be for your husband,
       And he shall rule over you."

That is why Paul says in Rom. 5:12 sin entered through man; Adam was not deceived, he was the first man that was made and he was the head of the woman and representative of all his posterity to follow.

Rom 5:12  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

mercy, peace and love
Kathy

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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2008, 04:32:30 PM »


"Romans 5:12"


If this is not a spiritual aspect, then it is indeed incorrect.   Eve Sinned first so why would it not be more accurate to say through  "one woman"?

If it is the literal we are talking about, then the sin entered the world through a woman.


"Anthropos"  is translated human.




Incorrect? That's a bold statement to make.
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phazel

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2008, 04:41:39 PM »

Incorrect? That's a bold statement to make.



I qualified my assertions to the literal.   The bible is one huge metaphor,  if the story of adam eve is indeed 100% literal, then  there is a contradiction in saying that literally adam the literal man is the cause.


The points made towards me show that the explanations cannot be made in the literal, so the story cannot be physically literal.

If the name adam is representative of the woman eve and 2 becoming one is represented by the name adam, then the story is not completely literal.

Literally a race of males and females were created,   but metaphorically the story is a representation of mankind as a whole.




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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2008, 05:25:24 PM »

Incorrect? That's a bold statement to make.



I qualified my assertions to the literal.   The bible is one huge metaphor,  if the story of adam eve is indeed 100% literal, then  there is a contradiction in saying that literally adam the literal man is the cause.


The points made towards me show that the explanations cannot be made in the literal, so the story cannot be physically literal.

If the name adam is representative of the woman eve and 2 becoming one is represented by the name adam, then the story is not completely literal.

Literally a race of males and females were created,   but metaphorically the story is a representation of mankind as a whole.







Everything in the OT physically "literally" happened but we all know that "for our admonition" that all these things have a spiritual meaning. Sodom and Gomorrah was "physically and literally" destroyed but of course Ezekiel 16:55 states that "spiritual" Sodom will return to her for estate.


"Adam and Eve are the spiritual symbols"...that is not scriptural. There was nothing spiritual about Adam and Eve as they were carnal minded and disobedient to the Word of God There were the physical creation as we all are. They are not "new creatures through Jesus Christ" so therefore they are not spiritual.

But as you first stated in your original post "Personally I think" , your thoughts are yours whether they contradict scripture or not. No person can change your mind. I believe with all the scriptures you have been given with Ray's teaching throughout the site, the truth is there. Whether you believe them is a different matter.


Marques
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phazel

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2008, 05:37:50 PM »

Quote
I believe with all the scriptures you have been given with Ray's teaching throughout the site, the truth is there. Whether you believe them is a different matter.


Ray has said that the "whole" bible is a metaphor.   So does Ray contradict now?




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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2008, 05:48:50 PM »

A metaphor for a bigger spiritual meaning. That's not saying that the metaphor being used does not "physically, literally" exist. Do you not believe the Israelites "physically & literally" walk through the Red Sea? But you also know that their physical baptism through the Red Sea is what we must "spiritually" do being "baptized into His death" with Christ. Everything the Israelites did "physically & literally" is what we must do "spiritually" through Christ.

The only one who seems to contradict scripture is you Phazel. Why not email Ray or PM the mods with your thoughts and see if they can help you to understand because this post is not going anywhere except further arguing.


Marques
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ericsteven

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2008, 05:52:32 PM »

Here is how I see Romans 5:12:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin...

From the moment he was created Adam was a physical model of perfection, but in his heart, he was just as carnal and spiritually immature as you or I.  Sin did not just present itself when Eve lusted after the fruit and then took of it; it was already in her heart, just as it was already in Adam’s heart, even though he had not transgressed or gone against God’s commandment before Eve gave him the fruit.

How can transgression of God’s law or sin manifest itself outwardly if it is not already present within our heart?  Mark 7:21-23 says:

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:  All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

One cannot physically murder another unless the murder was not already present in his heart.  Physical adultery does not occur unless one has already committed adultery in his heart.  Everything comes from the heart.  In like manner, neither Adam nor Eve would have transgressed God’s commandment if the sin had not already been in their hearts.  

So, while the argument that Adam was the head of Eve and that he was to rule over her makes sense, for me it makes more sense to understand that Adam had sin in his heart from the very moment he was created, though he didn’t transgress the commandment until Eve gave him the fruit.  That is how sin came into the world; because God created us, including the first man Adam, “subject to vanity” (Romans 8:20), subject to the lusts of our own hearts.

Thoughts?

Eric
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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: Adam and Eve DNA
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2008, 06:03:01 PM »

Incorrect? That's a bold statement to make.



I qualified my assertions to the literal.   The bible is one huge metaphor,  if the story of adam eve is indeed 100% literal, then  there is a contradiction in saying that literally adam the literal man is the cause.

Actualy that's not true. That is incorrect because we are told the FIRST is NATURAL and AFTERWARDS that which is SPIRITUAL. So how is the story of adam and eve being literal a contradiction? Your understanding has caused this. I firmly believe adam and eve is indeed a historical account of the beginning as well as spiritual. Why? We are told.

1 Corinthians 15:46
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural [The historical account.]; and afterward that which is spiritual.[The spiritual metephar behind the story]


The points made towards me show that the explanations cannot be made in the literal, so the story cannot be physically literal.

You've built your house on sand. It won't stand. This argument is a strawman argument. Their is nothing in your "explanation" that shows the story is not literal and therefor a contradiction if taken so.

If the name adam is representative of the woman eve and 2 becoming one is represented by the name adam, then the story is not completely literal.

Literally a race of males and females were created,   but metaphorically the story is a representation of mankind as a whole.

All i have to say to the rest of this is, uh.. what?

God be with you,

Alex

P.S. All i can see here is that your understanding of the scriptures has caused a contradiction and not the scriptures themselves that contradict.


« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 06:08:34 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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