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Author Topic: Spiritual greedy?  (Read 4477 times)

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moshe

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Spiritual greedy?
« on: April 26, 2008, 05:56:02 PM »


Avarice makes move our postmodern world, it is the desire of being wanting more and more, the more we get better, whatever that is more that we need or that we think to be our necessity.
And yes we are here to learn from contrasts and all avarice is necessary, so there will be all bondage someday.

We are told to be thankful and okay with what we have; this sounds like a good amount of conformism to me, which I am very fine with it.

But, when it comes to spiritual things, are we to stop being okay with what we have and start starving for more and more, just thinking on what we don’t have or suppose that we need? Like if it would be up to us, how much and how fast we can grow?

I am not sure, maybe we should, or maybe we should be faithfully with what we have now until God with time and circumstances in cress our capacities to keep overcoming. What if eider than keep wanting more, we give what we have since nothing that we have, we got it for our own.

We are to consider what was of big value for us; as lost, why? Because it never will be enough.
Everything is changing and nothing stays the same, for now all we have is hope and this will be always enough for us; ‘‘right now’’.

Does ‘‘Waiting with patience and perseverance for what we don’t have now’… could make the difference between ‘have the excessive or insatiable desire for spiritual things’??






Heb 13:5  Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 08:41:56 PM by acomplishedart_is;not me »
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Heidi

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Re: Spiritual greed?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2008, 10:30:29 AM »

Hi there,

I don't really follow what it is that you are trying to convey or ask.  Your title is "spiritually greedy", are you asking whether it is ok to be spiritually greedy?

At this point in my walk with God, I am like a sponge.  I can't seem to get enough of the spiritual food through Ray's teachings and reading the discussions/replies/emails.  Does that make me spiritually greedy....I don't think so. 

Heidi




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Roy Monis

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Re: Spiritual greed?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2008, 11:59:40 AM »

Hi! ?

Like Heidi I too don't fully understand your question. Are we comparing the needs of two worlds here, the carnal or physical and the spiritual? If so then it's simple. As long as we have adequate food and clothing we ought to be satisfied and content, what good are private jets, luxurious houses, yachts and expensive cars going to do for you today if God requires your soul tonight? Those material things immediately pass away never to return, but ahead of you is eternity for which you have not adequately prepared in your eagerness to satisfy your carnal lust for more and more. Would you not prefer to lust for an over abundance of Spiritual Greed which can never rust or be stolen and remain forever?

I know which I'd choose and have chosen. Like Heidi I can't get enough of the Truth as we are now receiving it through Ray, and that which I am receiving I'm having extreme difficulty in absorbing. It is all so deep and intense that it takes a brain far superior to mine to quickly gather it into a leak proof barn for safe keeping. I have to do it very slowly to produce the desired result it is intended for.

So brother: "For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: but your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. Yet seek ye his kingdom, and these things shall be added unto you" (Luke 12:30,31)

God bless you.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy
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vanityandvexation

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 02:36:04 AM »

Mr. Spiritually Greedy:

I understand your point. And yes, I believe there is a point when seeking wisdom and understanding (although we are required to do so) becomes vain:

Ecclesiastes 2:
   13Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness.

   14The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: and I myself perceived also that one event happeneth to them all.

   24There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God



Ecclesiastes 1
   1The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

   2Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

   3What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

   4One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

   5The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

   6The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

   7All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

   8All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

   9The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

   10Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

   11There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

   12I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.

   13And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

   14I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

   15That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.

   16I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.

   17And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also [giving your heart to know wisdom] is vexation of spirit.

   18For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.


Ecclesiastes 3:
    He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

   12I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life

   14I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. [For it is God who wills....  The steps of a man are ordered by the Lord...]


   19 ....for all is vanity.

   20All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

   21Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

   22Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?


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Robin

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 09:03:06 PM »

My carnal mind has been greedy for spiritual wisdom in an attmempt to save itself.

The more my carnal mind dies the more I am at peace with what the day holds. I don't feel greedy now, but I recognized it in the past.

This is the chapter that God used to deal with my spiritual (carnal) hunger.
I don't know if anyone else can relate to it in the same way I have.
I started my journey expecting the promised land and after 10 years in the desert I started
to worry and wonder if I was crazy. I found bible-truths just at the right time to save my sanity.

Numbers 11
Fire From the LORD
 1 Now the people complained about their hardships in the hearing of the LORD, and when he heard them his anger was aroused. Then fire from the LORD burned among them and consumed some of the outskirts of the camp. 2 When the people cried out to Moses, he prayed to the LORD and the fire died down. 3 So that place was called Taberah, [a] because fire from the LORD had burned among them.
Quail from the LORD
 4 The rabble with them began to crave other food, and again the Israelites started wailing and said, "If only we had meat to eat! 5 We remember the fish we ate in Egypt at no cost—also the cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions and garlic. 6 But now we have lost our appetite; we never see anything but this manna!"
 7 The manna was like coriander seed and looked like resin. 8 The people went around gathering it, and then ground it in a handmill or crushed it in a mortar. They cooked it in a pot or made it into cakes. And it tasted like something made with olive oil. 9 When the dew settled on the camp at night, the manna also came down.

 10 Moses heard the people of every family wailing, each at the entrance to his tent. The LORD became exceedingly angry, and Moses was troubled. 11 He asked the LORD, "Why have you brought this trouble on your servant? What have I done to displease you that you put the burden of all these people on me? 12 Did I conceive all these people? Did I give them birth? Why do you tell me to carry them in my arms, as a nurse carries an infant, to the land you promised on oath to their forefathers? 13 Where can I get meat for all these people? They keep wailing to me, 'Give us meat to eat!' 14 I cannot carry all these people by myself; the burden is too heavy for me. 15 If this is how you are going to treat me, put me to death right now—if I have found favor in your eyes—and do not let me face my own ruin."

 16 The LORD said to Moses: "Bring me seventy of Israel's elders who are known to you as leaders and officials among the people. Have them come to the Tent of Meeting, that they may stand there with you. 17 I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take of the Spirit that is on you and put the Spirit on them. They will help you carry the burden of the people so that you will not have to carry it alone.

 18 "Tell the people: 'Consecrate yourselves in preparation for tomorrow, when you will eat meat. The LORD heard you when you wailed, "If only we had meat to eat! We were better off in Egypt!" Now the LORD will give you meat, and you will eat it. 19 You will not eat it for just one day, or two days, or five, ten or twenty days, 20 but for a whole month—until it comes out of your nostrils and you loathe it—because you have rejected the LORD, who is among you, and have wailed before him, saying, "Why did we ever leave Egypt?" ' "

 21 But Moses said, "Here I am among six hundred thousand men on foot, and you say, 'I will give them meat to eat for a whole month!' 22 Would they have enough if flocks and herds were slaughtered for them? Would they have enough if all the fish in the sea were caught for them?"

 23 The LORD answered Moses, "Is the LORD's arm too short? You will now see whether or not what I say will come true for you."

 24 So Moses went out and told the people what the LORD had said. He brought together seventy of their elders and had them stand around the Tent. 25 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took of the Spirit that was on him and put the Spirit on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied, but they did not do so again.

 26 However, two men, whose names were Eldad and Medad, had remained in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but did not go out to the Tent. Yet the Spirit also rested on them, and they prophesied in the camp. 27 A young man ran and told Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp."

 28 Joshua son of Nun, who had been Moses' aide since youth, spoke up and said, "Moses, my lord, stop them!"

 29 But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!" 30 Then Moses and the elders of Israel returned to the camp.

 31 Now a wind went out from the LORD and drove quail in from the sea. It brought them [c] down all around the camp to about three feet [d] above the ground, as far as a day's walk in any direction. 32 All that day and night and all the next day the people went out and gathered quail. No one gathered less than ten homers. [e] Then they spread them out all around the camp. 33 But while the meat was still between their teeth and before it could be consumed, the anger of the LORD burned against the people, and he struck them with a severe plague. 34 Therefore the place was named Kibroth Hattaavah, [f] because there they buried the people who had craved other food.


« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 09:04:18 PM by M.G. »
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Roy Monis

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2008, 09:39:42 AM »

Hi! accomplishedart_is;notme

I am aware of all the Scriptural quotes from "vanityandvexation" and "M.G." and I fully agree with you that the term "Spiritually Greedy" as used by me does sound a bit weird, in fact a lot weird. What I was trying to say was that if the choice was between the excesses of the two worlds, I'd go for the Spiritual. Like Heidi, I too hunger for it and can't get enough, which amounts to greed. I hope this clears the air, or have I got it wrong yet again?

God bless you dear brother.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy

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hillsbororiver

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2008, 11:03:08 AM »

Hi Everyone,

An interesting thread and I must say an interesting choice in words!  ;)

Another way we could use what some might call a contradiction in terms would be do we "lust" after the Kingdom of God?

Does scripture speak of this desire, is it fair to use the word lust, maybe, because we are not to lust after the things of the world but is it possible to lust after spiritual purity and the fruits of the Spirit, an end to the present physical, natural, carnal world and the establishment of His Kingdom?

Are we being encouraged to be "greedy" for heavenly treasure? It appears to be the case. The terms/words greed and lust have negative connotations but replace those terms/words (which are similar in meaning if we lose the negative bias) with seek to gain and desire (which are much more positive).


Mat 6:20  But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
 
Mat 6:21  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Mat 6:33  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Look how Jesus compares how one should desire the Kingdom; if this were physical earthly treasure we might call it greed.

Mat 13:44  Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Mat 13:45  Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
 
Mat 13:46  Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Is it an honorable thing to want to know our Lord and God, to walk with Him, to learn from Him, to be perfected by Him?

Mat 13:17  For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Peace,

Joe


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Roy Monis

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2008, 12:11:42 PM »

Hi1 Joe

Picking up on your quote; Mat 13:44  Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. .

A strange thing happened to me last night while saying my prayers, believe it or not. I was suddenly taken off what I was doing as thought came into my mind of something that happened while I was in hospital a long time ago. In the locker was the usual Gideon's Bible and along side it was another New Testament Bible on its own without the Old Testament, possibly left by some previous patient. At the time I thought that this was a gross violation of the command not to add to or take away from the Word of God. Then I went back to what I was about in the first place - prayer. Why my mind suddenly blacked out and went onto this incident for just a brief moment, I have no idea.

Now as I read your reference to Matt.13:44 in the current topic that incident came to mind and it occurred to me that what they had done by taking away the whole OT was to remove the field in which the treasures had been burred by the men of God who had received them in ancient times, thereby leaving the readers of it without the necessary digging tools to unearth the treasures they were seeking.

Just a silly passing thought Joe, thanks for your contribution.

God bless

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy.

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musicman

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 04:40:37 PM »

The only thought I can add on the subject of "spiritual greed" is perhaps some lack the patience to wait for God's gifts of spirit.  I myself, constantly want to know more and more to increase my hope at this time.  I am not doing well with patience.  I want to at least know enough to be certain that the scriptures are reliable.  It would also be nice if I could fathom living in the likes of Christ.  Aint happening now.  I think when churchians and Moslems speak of heavenly treasures they are often greedy of the mansions and or 72 virgins.  Just give me one virgin right now and. . . oh, never mind.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 10:23:00 AM »

Hi1 Joe

Picking up on your quote; Mat 13:44  Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. .

A strange thing happened to me last night while saying my prayers, believe it or not. I was suddenly taken off what I was doing as thought came into my mind of something that happened while I was in hospital a long time ago. In the locker was the usual Gideon's Bible and along side it was another New Testament Bible on its own without the Old Testament, possibly left by some previous patient. At the time I thought that this was a gross violation of the command not to add to or take away from the Word of God. Then I went back to what I was about in the first place - prayer. Why my mind suddenly blacked out and went onto this incident for just a brief moment, I have no idea.

Now as I read your reference to Matt.13:44 in the current topic that incident came to mind and it occurred to me that what they had done by taking away the whole OT was to remove the field in which the treasures had been burred by the men of God who had received them in ancient times, thereby leaving the readers of it without the necessary digging tools to unearth the treasures they were seeking.

Just a silly passing thought Joe, thanks for your contribution.

God bless

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy.



Hi Roy,

Not silly at all but rather an astute observation as well as a very interesting experience.

I agree wholeheartedly with you about the OT, I remember clearly how exciting and even joyful I was when the Old Testament began to open up to me for really the first time (about 3 years ago).

Before then in my brief and limited church experience and the scores of "Christian" books I read the OT was basically a history of physical Israel, the treasure was discovered (from the Spirit through Ray's articles) when it began to show the deeper and more profound spiritual prophecies from those shadows of physical Israel's experience(s).

Thank you Brother.

Peace,

Joe
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kweli

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2008, 11:20:24 AM »

Hello everybody

This is a great thread. And I'm also with Joe. It is an honourable thing to want to know God. But I think we may have missed something that M.G. pointed out. Numbers 11 has some significance to this thread. Are we trying to multiply the same manna we have been given or are we trying to multiply to meat, fish, cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions and garlic because we are tired of the manna?

As Ray always says, "it's all one". It'll all lead us back to one thing. Whether we're spiritual babies or giants, the Gospel is one. The understanding is not one, hence many interpretations. But the truth is one. No matter how many years of study or how much knowledge we gain in Scripture, if we're truly guided by the Spirit, it'll lead us to Jesus, in any context.

Ray's recent bible study opened my eyes to something very relevant to this topic. If I understand what God's Sovereignty is, based on all the many verses, why should I be stuck in one verse that almost 'suggests' that He isnt? What happened to the many that assured me that He is? It would appear to me that I'm tired of the hidden manna and now seeking garlic.

This is not a lesson. I'm not bringing in a new idea. I'm just adding my two cents worth.

All Glory to Him
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 11:26:37 AM by kweli »
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hdjohn

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2008, 11:29:21 AM »

oh boy you got a lot of responce on that one!!!!!  lol!!!
   mathew 5:3, came to mind as I was reading!!!   
                                                                           JOHN <>< 17:3
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Kitt

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 11:01:05 PM »

The most interesting thing about Numbers 11 is that indeed the children of Israel were greedy in the most negative of terms.  They left Egypt with more than the Egyptians had left after the plagues, (flocks and livestock).  Not only that, they took most of what the Egyptians had left.  They were complaining that the only free thing that they had in the wilderness was manna.  They didn't want to eat from the bounty they left Egypt with.  They felt that Yahveh owed them a living.  They wanted more and Yahveh was going to teach them a lesson and he did.  The question is what can we learn from this lesson on greed.

Kitt
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Akira329

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2008, 11:07:49 PM »

"I'll have an order of manna with a side of locust with a large honey..........on second thought can you supersize that!!!! ;D
I'm so greedy!!!! ;D
But not to greedy:
Pro 25:16  Hast thou found honey? eat so much as is sufficient for thee, lest thou be filled therewith, and vomit it.
Sorry to get off, It hit me so fast!!

Antaiwan
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Roy Monis

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2008, 06:58:43 AM »

The most interesting thing about Numbers 11 is that indeed the children of Israel were greedy in the most negative of terms.  They left Egypt with more than the Egyptians had left after the plagues, (flocks and livestock).  Not only that, they took most of what the Egyptians had left.  They were complaining that the only free thing that they had in the wilderness was manna.  They didn't want to eat from the bounty they left Egypt with.  They felt that Yahveh owed them a living.  They wanted more and Yahveh was going to teach them a lesson and he did.  The question is what can we learn from this lesson on greed.

Kitt

Hi! Kitt

We can learn a lot, the most important being to be content with what the Lord your God considers adequate for your present needs and not to crave for more or the more will be your downfall. I suppose that applies to both worlds, Physical and Spiritual but as far as I'm concerned, I'm perfectly content with His provision for my needs here and I crave no more. But...but as Ray says, I can't stop my craving for more of Him.

God bless.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy.   
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brandon h

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Re: Spiritual greedy?
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2008, 11:32:58 PM »

It's not about how much you know, but about what you know becoming who you are. You can give a message, but when you are a  message you are speaking you are not only speaking life and truth, you are living it. So as my carnal mind desires more than it can handle, it is not harmful as long as I can learn to wait for the coming of the Lord in the spirit, lest I start to believe I can obtain heights on my own.

"Be ye also patient: stablish your hearts: for the coming (parousia, greek word meaning presence) of the Lord draweth nigh."

Not only is spiritual hunger a good sign, I would be highly concerned for my spiritual well being if it were to leave. But the process of BECOMING the word is a long process, so like it or not we have no choice but to wait. Christ leaves out no details!

Be strong in Christ
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