free will an illusion ?

[musicman]

Free will and free choice are the very same thing.  Neither is free.

[vanityandvexation]

Free will and free choice are the very same thing.  Neither is free.

I wonder where the "Free" came from in this popular phrase. Where does the Bible mention FREE will? I've always understood it to simply be "will" or "choice,"  as though the verb "to choose" and noun "will" are all that need to be debated? And really there is no debate, right? It's a simle gospel, we are not our own. We make not our own choices. 

Right?  Thoughts?

[Kat]

Hi vanityandvexation,

We make not our own choices. 

Right?  Thoughts?

Here are a couple of emails that will help with your question 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4680.0.html ----------

Not having fee will or free choice does not mean that you do not HAVE a will or choices. Of course we have a will and of course we make millions of our own choices, but the fact of the matter is, neither is FREE to think or do anything that is not first CAUSED BY SOMETHING.  We "sin" because the pulls and trials, and tests, and temptations of our environment CAUSE our hearts to desire and commit sin, because our "deceitful hearts" (Jer. 17:17) ARE NOT FREE FROM CAUSALITY TO RESIST SIN.  The ONLY way to resist sin is by the power of God's Holy Spirit, and if it takes the power of God's Holy Spirit to resist sin, then obviously we do not have a free will which can decide to do in on its own.  It is a humbling experience to realize that God Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth is actually, and factually, and literally, more powerful than we are. NO MAN will tell God He doesn't want to repent when God tells him: "NOW is the time for you to repent, and YOU WILL REPENT"!!

    Read my series on free will.

    God be with you,
    Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2697.0.html ---------

Listen: The future has not occurred until it has occured. Or as Yogi once said: "It's not over till it's over." If the future is dependant upon our decisions that are truly "free" and not caused to happen, then the future cannot be known, NOT EVEN BY GOD. But, since God does know all that is in the future, it is proof positive that there is no such thing an effect which did not have a cause. If an event (an effect)  that WILL happen is both free to happen and free not to happen, then why DOES IT HAPPEN?  If it was "free" to NOT HAPPEN, then why did it HAPPEN.  What CAUSED IT TO HAPPEN against its supposed freedom to NOT HAPPEN. How could an effect NOT HAVE BEEN EFFECTED (that's freedom)?  The instant an "effect" comes about, it has lost all "freedom" to have NOT come about. Therefore ALL THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED was not "free" to not happen at all. If it were, theoretically, NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE WOULD HAVE EVER HAD TO HAPPEN. Things are CAUSED to happen and that Cause is what we call "GOD."  What I have just stated cannot be argued with any wisdom, logic, or true knowledge. To argue against what I have stated is sheer foolishness. Unfortunately, precious few can see it or understand it even though the Scriptures are very clear on it.

God be with you,
Ray

[Roy Monis]

Hi! Dave UK

Thank you brother, I have downloaded and taken a copy of that website you quoted. Now I have two loaded cannons to blast those who dare to contradict. Ray's teaching and their god science's wonderful discovery. Pity that professor or whatever didn't believe Ray before discovering how foolish God makes his  wisdom look.

God bless and love to Karen.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy.

[Pandora]

~ I believe the only way to have a will that is FREE;
is in not having to choose.

Adam & Eve did not have to choose.
Their will was FREE from choice.

Once they choose? Their Will was not FREE from any Choice.

Choosing the tree of the knowledge of good & evil
was not of a FREE Will choice given by God.

Because God Commanded them N0T to eat of that tree.
But of every other tree of the garden they could "FREELY EAT".
Gen.2:16