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Author Topic: Being a Christian is bad?  (Read 10904 times)

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2008, 05:11:12 AM »

Knowing what we know through the revelations given through Ray Smiths teaching about who it is who heads up the Christian Church plus the fact that it is Antioch that is the mother church of Christianity; Antioch Christianity is the abomination of desolation, bringing 2,000 years/2,000 swine in the temple.

Ray draws out in his study Paul lamenting and crying daily for three years concerning what was to come about in the Church with the wolves entering. 

For me the call is still to Come out of her My People. Shall God contend with humanity, or with me and my reluctance, ignorance disobedience, for ever? NO. Something has to change and it is not going to be God! 8)

I Thank God there is no such thing as forever but age abiding the time will come when God will return!  The age will close when the cry from God to Come out of her, will be sealed and the LOF WTJ shall take effect. There is a day of judgment and in this is our salvation and hope and joy. Satanic rule will be terminated and the captives will be set free. THIS IS PROMISED BY GOD.

What we believe ultimately will manifest in who's report we have trusted. When this is revealed we shall either be in Christianity or out of it. We shall have either come out via the narrow gate or we will still be in compromise territory thinking we can still come out and that the door is still open or that the call to come out is still applicable. The day of judgment is a day that will comeOR is already here for those who are in judgment on the House of God now. 

So to answer the title of this thread "Being a Christian is bad?" For me, where I am at this point I will answer categorically Yes it is because by implication it means consent to BELONG to the Church and belief that the Church will stand in for individuals to wave any judgment by God on them. This is a false teaching.  Being a Christian denotes for me,  in who's report I have believed. Sacrifice for the reward of obedience is still an option for me as my obedience is being refined through trials and tribulations. When Christ is here, for me, then there is no more sacrifice left to atone for rebellion, denial, disobedience, no further offering to which to look forward. That is good news because the Christian Church still teaches bondage to sins, subservience to itself, and penance for sins while concealing the fact that there is no more sacrifice for atonement Jesus has paid the final sacrifice! What remains is obedience or disobedience. God still is good and will have all to be saved but as through fire.

It is Satan who is the Adversary and who places himself in opposition to God. There is no truth in him. He is the father of lies. He heads up the Christian Church and for them it is real bad news. :) but that is the big secret, the vast revelation for as truly as Christ spoke so it will be....Depart from me....In this is our sorrow for them, our pity towards them and our work to bring the judgments of God to them so they can learn righteousness when Gods judgments are in the earth. Then our sacrifice while yet they are still sinners could begin in the image of Christ who laid down His life for His elect.

The harvest is great. The few are chosen.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 05:35:03 AM by Arcturus »
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mharrell08

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2008, 09:10:50 AM »

For me, where I am at this point I will answer categorically Yes it is because by implication it means consent to BELONG to the Church and belief that the Church will stand in for individuals to wave any judgment by God on them.

Hello All:

I just wanted to point this out, not to argue or be a stumblingblock for Arcturus, but this is her own personal belief. If you wish to consider yourself a Christian because of your TRUE belief in Christ, that is up to you. But it is not wrong either way. It is only a title that has no forbearance on salvation. Paul and Peter had to come out of the Jewish synagogues and false beliefs but never stopped calling themselves Jews. The "implication" that Arcturus mentions above is not by the Father or our Lord but by men when they hear the word Christian. And what does their opiniion count in the grand scheme of things?

John 4:9-10  Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.   Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

I thought of this verse while writing my reply. Did Jesus get all hot and bothered by the "implications" the Samaritan had about him considering HE WAS A JEW. No, he only corrected her "implications" or basically told her THE TRUTH about worshipping in spirit & truth. If someone refers to you as a Christian because of your belief in Christ and they also think you believe in all the Babylon lies, so what?! YOU KNOW THE TRUTH!!!! The reason why I said this is a matter of babes is because this is like a 5 year old upset because someone called them a name or "title". And what does a parent tell a child in these situations? You know who you are so DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE THINK.

The title of being a "Christian" is neither good nor bad. Just like the title Jew is neither good nor bad. But what you are inwardly is of most importance as Paul tells us in Rom. 2:29. And also, do not let a "title" be a stumblingblock for you as it has NO FORBEARANCE on your salvation. Christ will give you a NEW NAME upon his return.


Marques
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2008, 01:32:32 PM »

Marques

Why have you have used my post to  misrepresented what and Who I believe?

You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning?  If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!

The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.

If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?

Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.

Peace to you
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 01:45:01 PM by Arcturus »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2008, 02:16:46 PM »

I should like to add for the benefit of those who are starting to come out of the false teachings and who are beginning to see the blasphemies taught and practised in Christendom, that the way out of Babylon is by no means a quick fix. It is a most gradual and painful process that I believe can only reach completion in the time and discretion of Jesus Christ alone.

Non are free yet.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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mharrell08

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2008, 03:17:06 PM »

You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning?

I said "the title of being a "Christian is neither good nor bad. Just like the title Jew is neither good nor bad." I did not say all titles are neither good or bad.

The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity

Paul (who could very well be of the Elect) came out of Babylon, which is all the worldly religions/governments including Judaism & Christianity. Did he ever stop calling himself a Jew?

Being called a Christian is an insult

To you maybe, but not to all. The title bears nothing to me.


Just look at our usernames next to our posts. "Member of the body of Christ" There are tons of Babylon denominations with that title. Would I get all hot and bothered if someone "assumed" (which is what this thread is really all about: one assuming the title of Christian means a member of Babylon) that I was a member of that Babylonian congregation? NO, because I know the truth and when you know the truth, you are set free.

Arcturus,
Honestly I respect your opinion and truly love to read your past posts because of their wonderful insight. I apologize if you believe I have misrepresented your comments but your comments speak for themselves. If you do not agree, let us just continue on in love (or even a PM if you would like).  This is really an endless religious debate that is not edifying anyone at this point. Once again, I apologize if I have offended you.


Marques


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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2008, 03:37:39 PM »


I see the PM lines as a privileged line of communication not a line of contention and debate. Likewise I shall withdraw from this thread. My comments stand. I shall not discuss my deeper insights into the matters you raise.

Peace to you
Arcturus.




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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2008, 01:24:07 PM »

You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning?

I said "the title of being a "Christian is neither good nor bad. Just like the title Jew is neither good nor bad." I did not say all titles are neither good or bad.

The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity

Paul (who could very well be of the Elect) came out of Babylon, which is all the worldly religions/governments including Judaism & Christianity. Did he ever stop calling himself a Jew?

Being called a Christian is an insult

To you maybe, but not to all. The title bears nothing to me.


Just look at our usernames next to our posts. "Member of the body of Christ" There are tons of Babylon denominations with that title. Would I get all hot and bothered if someone "assumed" (which is what this thread is really all about: one assuming the title of Christian means a member of Babylon) that I was a member of that Babylonian congregation? NO, because I know the truth and when you know the truth, you are set free.

Arcturus,
Honestly I respect your opinion and truly love to read your past posts because of their wonderful insight. I apologize if you believe I have misrepresented your comments but your comments speak for themselves. If you do not agree, let us just continue on in love (or even a PM if you would like).  This is really an endless religious debate that is not edifying anyone at this point. Once again, I apologize if I have offended you.


Marques




Hi! Marques

I regret to say brother that discussions on this issue will get you nowhere other than getting the PMs blocked.

My opinion, for what it is, is just my opinion and I will stick by it. I believe that in accordance with God's Master Plan from the very beginning, the Church that Jesus Christ founded has become corrupt in keeping with that plan. This is the platform from which He can now "call out" those of us whom He has preserved for Himself from the very beginning in accordance with that original Master Plan. Nothing is out of place everything is going perfectly as He intended.

The word Christian first appeared at Antioch and all belonging to that Church were called Christians. That title has come down through the centuries to us today. But now is the time, now is the acceptable hour for His chosen to come out of her. We are just a small part of those yet to answer His call and we are still Christian but there is another command in there which seems to be getting overlooked "AND BE SEPARATE". Now to me to be separate means just one thing and that is to completely alienate oneself from the original. We are God's Chosen/elect and cannot be confused with the corrupt.

"Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever?" (1Cor.6:14,15)

God is all wise, He knows that a good fruit left in a barrel of rotten fruit won't make the rotten into good but the good will go rotten, so in His Wisdom He calls us out. Now that we are completely separate we of necessity need an identity. Still a Christian (believer in Christ) but now a New Christian ; a true better under a new name " The Body Of Christ". Just my humble opinion.

God bless

Love in Christ Jesus

Roy
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lorrie

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2008, 02:16:17 PM »

 ;D
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Roy Coates

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2008, 03:14:18 PM »

Greek Strong's Number: 5546
Greek Word: Χριστιανός
Transliteration: Christianos
Phonetic Pronunciation:khris-tee-an-os'
Root: from <G5547>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 9:493,1322
Part of Speech: n pr m
Vine's Words: Christian
 
 
Usage Notes:
 
English Words used in KJV:
Christian 3
[Total Count: 3]
 
from <G5547> (Christos); a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ :- Christian.
—Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary
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Roy Coates

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2008, 03:20:45 PM »

16 Yet <G1161> if <G1487> any man suffer as <G5613> a Christian <G5546>, let him <G153> <G0> not <G3361> be ashamed <G153>; but <G1161> let him glorify <G1392> God <G2316> on <G1722> this <G5129> behalf <G3313>.

1 Peter 4:16 (KJV)
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kweli

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2008, 08:03:20 AM »

Hello everyone.

I dont feel good about this thread and it appears I may have dragged it on unnecessarily. For that I truly apologize. Because of a desire to live the truth and not just know it for sport or kicks, I thought using the name Christian is something to look into as one of the things we ought to do.

I believe David and Marques are right on the money. it's not in the name outwardly. Whatever we are, it is so inwardly. Matthew 6: 1-18 is about doing things inwardly for that is where the reward is, or more importantly where God (not man) sees. Yes we are not to be unequally yoked with nonbelievers. But it ought to be inwardly, otherwise we are to get out of this world, which, as Paul said, is not what is meant by not being unstained from this world.

Christian is a name, a word which indeed could cause division if we are to entertain or discredit it. However, the meaning of the word (follower of Christ) which is the real battle, ought to be what we are more concerned of, I think.

All Glory to Him
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Roy Coates

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2008, 01:45:41 PM »

Another heart felt post.

I believe all have spoke their heart on this matter, and I am truly greatfull for everyboby's time, energy and thoughts.

I am a Christian, I have left my boat and nets to follow Jesus. I do not follow the man made doctrines that run rampit through Christendom or any other religion. I dispel the lies when  the Spirit moves me to dispel them. I share the Truth with any one who will listen and even sometimes to those who won't. I serve God and Jesus, God's children, the lost, widows, fatherless, and hungry. Regardless of their social standing/local church/race/creed or religion.

My continued prayers for all my brethren. May God's will be done in everybody life. May blessing be poured out on this ministry and all ministries as God see's fit.


 
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2008, 11:15:29 AM »

Hello everyone.

I dont feel good about this thread and it appears I may have dragged it on unnecessarily. For that I truly apologize. Because of a desire to live the truth and not just know it for sport or kicks, I thought using the name Christian is something to look into as one of the things we ought to do.

I believe David and Marques are right on the money. it's not in the name outwardly. Whatever we are, it is so inwardly. Matthew 6: 1-18 is about doing things inwardly for that is where the reward is, or more importantly where God (not man) sees. Yes we are not to be unequally yoked with nonbelievers. But it ought to be inwardly, otherwise we are to get out of this world, which, as Paul said, is not what is meant by not being unstained from this world.

Christian is a name, a word which indeed could cause division if we are to entertain or discredit it. However, the meaning of the word (follower of Christ) which is the real battle, ought to be what we are more concerned of, I think.

All Glory to Him

Hi! Kweli

There is no reason to feel bad about this. Being called a Jew is no different than being called an American, Englishman, German or French for that matter. Being called a Christian is totally different. On the 11th of May I posted this:

Hi! Marques

I regret to say brother that discussions on this issue will get you nowhere other than getting the PMs blocked.

My opinion, for what it is, is just my opinion and I will stick by it. I believe that in accordance with God's Master Plan from the very beginning, the Church that Jesus Christ founded has become corrupt in keeping with that plan. This is the platform from which He can now "call out" those of us whom He has preserved for Himself from the very beginning in accordance with that original Master Plan. Nothing is out of place everything is going perfectly as He intended.

The word Christian first appeared at Antioch and all belonging to that Church were called Christians. That title has come down through the centuries to us today. But now is the time, now is the acceptable hour for His chosen to come out of her. We are just a small part of those yet to answer His call and we are still Christian but there is another command in there which seems to be getting overlooked "AND BE SEPARATE". Now to me to be separate means just one thing and that is to completely alienate oneself from the original. We are God's Chosen/elect and cannot be confused with the corrupt.

"Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever?" (1Cor.6:14,15)

God is all wise, He knows that a good fruit left in a barrel of rotten fruit won't make the rotten into good but the good will go rotten, so in His Wisdom He calls us out. Now that we are completely separate we of necessity need an identity. Still a Christian (believer in Christ) but now a New Christian ; a true better under a new name " The Body Of Christ". Just my humble opinion.

God bless

Love in Christ Jesus

Roy

And I stand by everything I've said, being SEPARATE means divesting yourself of all Christendom's idols of the heart, the name Christian,  being one such idol.

"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

Taking the idol of our heart, the name Christian, out of Babylon with us is precisely what Israel did when they were called out of Egypt, they took the Egyptian idols of the heart out with them which caused them to stumble. We are now New Creatures in Christ ALL THINGS ARE NEW. This is why we have a new name "The Body of Christ" to distinguish us from the corruption we have come out of. Reference Ray's "Lake of Fire Chapter V111 'The Church In Pergamos.'"   “Therefore, come out from their midst and be [b]separate, says the Lord. [u]And do not touch what is unclean;[/color] [/u]

God bless.

love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK
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mharrell08

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2008, 12:05:21 PM »

Hello All:

So let me see if I understand this thread from reading through all the comments:

(1) Some people who have responded to this thread believe the title Christian is of Babylon and if one assumes this title he/she has not "come out of her" and keeps this as an idol of the heart.

(2) While others who have responded believe that the title means a follower of Christ and refer to themselves as such because of its original, Scriptural meaning.

First things first, like David and myself stated again and again, this matters causes division as you can see. But let's really get to the "meat" of this issue: Will anyone be bold enough to state that if one refers to themselves as a Christian that that person WILL NOT be in the first resurrection?

Let me make a clear point: If ANYONE refers to themselves as a follower of Christ (whether they call themselves Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ, etc.) then a member of Babylon will ALWAYS assume that this person believes in the same Babylonian doctrines as them!

That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.

The only idol of the heart that I have seen from these posts is the people who "care" what members of Babylon think of them. That is the only thing a title represents: what people see/think of you outwardly. A title has no bearing of what you are inwardly. Do you really think the Lord will or will not call you His Own because of some silly title? If one is a true (Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ) inwardly, then does the Lord really care which of these "titles" you call yourself? Are we really this blind and carnal to not see past this silly issue? This is truly a matter of babes! A 4 page thread on the title Christian!

I'm sorry, I tried to restrain myself from responding to this issue but I caved. But the reason is because of the silly division that this thread created. And if you don't see it, just read through its entirely again. Nonsense!


Marques
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UncleBeau

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2008, 01:10:37 PM »

That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.

Oh really?

John 4:42   
 42.) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.


It's the name or title that makes us who we are. We pray in the Name of Christ...Hollowed be Thy Name..."God" is the title that Jesus has been given. I will say that whatever name we give ourselves is not neccessarily the name that God has given us. In Hebrew, everything was named according to what it was. Men were named according to their surroundings, appearances, etc. Why would have God changed Abram's name if it didn't matter what he was called? What about Saul?

I really don't see "division", I see differences of opinion. People are learning more and more truth and are trying to figure out what they should be called. It's a learning process. We're trying to get what's on the inside to show on the outside. We're human, that's what we do. We just aren't quite sure what's on the inside sometimes. In my personal opinion, I define what a christian is by the actions of christiandom as a whole. I don't like what I see, so I choose not to be called that. That's all. You might think that names don't mean anything, but christiandom, will tell you what "being" a christian means to them, in retrospect, people "make" names mean something. We ALL make our names mean something. When someone you know hears your name, they get immediate pictures of you and a feeling that reminds them of you. In science, everything is named so we know what it is. God had Adam Name every creature. Was it in vain? Those are my comments.


-Beau
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2008, 01:34:35 PM »

Hello All:

So let me see if I understand this thread from reading through all the comments:

(1) Some people who have responded to this thread believe the title Christian is of Babylon and if one assumes this title he/she has not "come out of her" and keeps this as an idol of the heart.

(2) While others who have responded believe that the title means a follower of Christ and refer to themselves as such because of its original, Scriptural meaning.

First things first, like David and myself stated again and again, this matters causes division as you can see. But let's really get to the "meat" of this issue: Will anyone be bold enough to state that if one refers to themselves as a Christian that that person WILL NOT be in the first resurrection?

Let me make a clear point: If ANYONE refers to themselves as a follower of Christ (whether they call themselves Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ, etc.) then a member of Babylon will ALWAYS assume that this person believes in the same Babylonian doctrines as them!

That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.

The only idol of the heart that I have seen from these posts is the people who "care" what members of Babylon think of them. That is the only thing a title represents: what people see/think of you outwardly. A title has no bearing of what you are inwardly. Do you really think the Lord will or will not call you His Own because of some silly title? If one is a true (Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ) inwardly, then does the Lord really care which of these "titles" you call yourself? Are we really this blind and carnal to not see past this silly issue? This is truly a matter of babes! A 4 page thread on the title Christian!

I'm sorry, I tried to restrain myself from responding to this issue but I caved. But the reason is because of the silly division that this thread created. And if you don't see it, just read through its entirely again. Nonsense!


Marques

Hi! Marques

I am not in the business of making judgments, brother, and as such am not prepared to say whether or not those wanting to be called Christian will be in the first resurrection or not, I don't know if I'm going to be in it, only God knows and I leave that to Him. I believe in the Scriptures and I have quoted the Scriptures and that is what I believe the Scriptures are saying to me. What they are saying to you is none of my business, I'm only sharing what I believe, what you believe is entirely your choice.

There is no question of causing a division, I believe we've had enough of that over the past 2000 years. We are just discussing and airing opinions on this forum or that is what I believed it to be all about. We are supposed to be following Ray's teachings and his teaching is in accord with what I have been saying all along. So please don't infer that I am causing a division. I am deeply sorry if I have inadvertently trodden on someones toes but it was quite unintentional. " Lake of Fire Chapter V111 -- The Church in Pergamos." please read it.

In Antioch the followers of Christ were given the name Christian but over the past 2000 years those under the name Christian are still followers of Christ but that name has gotten itself a stigma attached to it which makes it unclean. It's to do with the name not the true follower. I can't do any better than that

Each one must do what they think is right in their own eyes and leave it at that, we can only try to help one another and not judge, that is God's prerogative.

God bless

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy.
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mharrell08

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Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2008, 02:17:37 PM »

That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.

Oh really?

John 4:42   
 42.) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.


-Beau


I meant to say that the name that we identify with ourself as a believer is insignificant, not all names and titles. That is my mistake for assuming one would know what I truly meant. Let me repeat: I AM NOT talking about all names and titles being of little value ONLY the name one assigns himself because of their belief in Christ.

I just do not understand why anyone would be upset about how a member of Babylon perceives them. I know of Babylonian denominations called "Body of Christ". Do I shun that title because they have created a "stigma" to it? Oh, look...right next to EVERYONE'S name is that very same title! This is why I say that this kind of title is worthless. It seems that all agree it matters what one is inwardly but then some will go off on how they want to be perceived outwardly by a title. Does salt declare "I am Salt? Does light declare "I am Light"? No, they just show and do it. Are we not the "salt of the earth" and "light of the world"? The reason why I stated this creates division because of some people's (not all) comments on how it is evil or dispicable to be called a Christian. If you don't believe me, read this entire thread.

To me, this issue boils down to this:
Does our Lord and Saviour judge us by the name or title we choose for ourselves to identify our beliefs?

I stated no, because Paul states it is what you are inwardly that matters not outwardly. He was talking of a Jew in Romans...but does this not apply to the many titles of the followers of Christ?


Marques

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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2008, 03:57:25 PM »

Marques

Why have you have used my post to  misrepresented what and Who I believe?

You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning?  If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!

The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.

If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?

Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.

Peace to you


Hii! Arcturus

I agree we either keep to Ray's teaching's and the Scriptures or just don't bother. What I said in my post to Marques was in keeping with that teaching and the Scriptures. At Antioch the followers of Christ were named Christian but over the centuries that name has become stigmatized with corruption, deceit, extortion, murder, persecution, immorality etc.etc...I ask myself, does God really want His chosen to associate with such? "The Lake of Fie Chapter V111 ...The Church in Pergamos." makes this point abundantly clear and the Scriptures support it:
   "Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2Cor.5:16-20).

In the face of this evidence I can't see how they can hold on to their view, but of course that's their choice. I personally think that the name Christian is an idol of the heart something out of Babylon that they don't want to discard, like the Israelites bringing out Egyptian idols when they were called out of Egypt.

I've been accused of causing division. Discussing one's view causes division, how ridiculous can one get I ask you?

God bless.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy.















 
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2008, 04:16:37 PM »

Marques

Why have you have used my post to  misrepresented what and Who I believe?

You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning?  If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!

The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.

If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?

Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.

Peace to you


Hii! Arcturus

I agree we either keep to Ray's teaching's and the Scriptures or just don't bother. What I said in my post to Marques was in keeping with that teaching and the Scriptures. At Antioch the followers of Christ were named Christian but over the centuries that name has become stigmatized with corruption, deceit, extortion, murder, persecution, immorality etc.etc...I ask myself, does God really want His chosen to associate with such? "The Lake of Fie Chapter V111 ...The Church in Pergamos." makes this point abundantly clear and the Scriptures support it:
   "Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2Cor.5:16-20).

In the face of this evidence I can't see how they can hold on to their view, but of course that's their choice. I personally think that the name Christian is an idol of the heart something out of Babylon that they don't want to discard, like the Israelites bringing out Egyptian idols when they were called out of Egypt.

I've been accused of causing division. Discussing one's view causes division, how ridiculous can one get I ask you?

God bless.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy. 


Roy,

Did Paul ever stop calling himself a Jew even though the Jews were morally corrupt? No. Was this an idol of his heart? No. So, how is this issue any different than one calling them self a Christian?

No matter what you call yourself, a member of Babylon will always assume the 2 of you are of like mind. They are the ones deceived as we both know. Every name/title that means to follow Christ has a stigma to it. And we both agree that the members of Babylon are the ones that placed this stigma to these titles. But does our Lord judge us by this title or by how we live? I could call myself a Member of the Body of Christ but it would be in vain if I do not follow our Lord and Savior, Jesus.

That is the reason why I said it created division. Some believers think of the title Christian from its original scriptural meaning: follower of Christ. But then others (see the division?) say: that title is evil, don't associate yourself with it. With that line of thinking, you could not call yourself ANYTHING because members of Babylon has desecrated every title/name that is associated with following Christ. What you then have is people confused as to what to call themselves. My posts have been more for our "guests" who may be coming around to the Truth and I do not wish for ANYONE to be a stumblingblock for them. Hope this helps your understanding.


Marques
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Being a Christian is bad?
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2008, 05:03:54 PM »



Revelation 2 : 17 He who is able to hear, let him listen to and heed what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes, I will give to eat of the manna that is hidden, and I will give him a white stone with A NEW NAME engraved on the stone, which no one knows or understands except HE WHO RECEIVES IT.   8)

I understand this in the following way. That NEW NAME will not be debatable, divisible  or negotiable! Let this therefore settle all variable opinions.  :D

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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