> General Discussions
Being a Christian is bad?
Roy Monis:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on May 15, 2008, 09:05:21 AM ---Hello All:
So let me see if I understand this thread from reading through all the comments:
(1) Some people who have responded to this thread believe the title Christian is of Babylon and if one assumes this title he/she has not "come out of her" and keeps this as an idol of the heart.
(2) While others who have responded believe that the title means a follower of Christ and refer to themselves as such because of its original, Scriptural meaning.
First things first, like David and myself stated again and again, this matters causes division as you can see. But let's really get to the "meat" of this issue: Will anyone be bold enough to state that if one refers to themselves as a Christian that that person WILL NOT be in the first resurrection?
Let me make a clear point: If ANYONE refers to themselves as a follower of Christ (whether they call themselves Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ, etc.) then a member of Babylon will ALWAYS assume that this person believes in the same Babylonian doctrines as them!
That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.
The only idol of the heart that I have seen from these posts is the people who "care" what members of Babylon think of them. That is the only thing a title represents: what people see/think of you outwardly. A title has no bearing of what you are inwardly. Do you really think the Lord will or will not call you His Own because of some silly title? If one is a true (Christian, Spiritual Jew, Member of the Body of Christ) inwardly, then does the Lord really care which of these "titles" you call yourself? Are we really this blind and carnal to not see past this silly issue? This is truly a matter of babes! A 4 page thread on the title Christian!
I'm sorry, I tried to restrain myself from responding to this issue but I caved. But the reason is because of the silly division that this thread created. And if you don't see it, just read through its entirely again. Nonsense!
Marques
--- End quote ---
Hi! Marques
I am not in the business of making judgments, brother, and as such am not prepared to say whether or not those wanting to be called Christian will be in the first resurrection or not, I don't know if I'm going to be in it, only God knows and I leave that to Him. I believe in the Scriptures and I have quoted the Scriptures and that is what I believe the Scriptures are saying to me. What they are saying to you is none of my business, I'm only sharing what I believe, what you believe is entirely your choice.
There is no question of causing a division, I believe we've had enough of that over the past 2000 years. We are just discussing and airing opinions on this forum or that is what I believed it to be all about. We are supposed to be following Ray's teachings and his teaching is in accord with what I have been saying all along. So please don't infer that I am causing a division. I am deeply sorry if I have inadvertently trodden on someones toes but it was quite unintentional. " Lake of Fire Chapter V111 -- The Church in Pergamos." please read it.
In Antioch the followers of Christ were given the name Christian but over the past 2000 years those under the name Christian are still followers of Christ but that name has gotten itself a stigma attached to it which makes it unclean. It's to do with the name not the true follower. I can't do any better than that
Each one must do what they think is right in their own eyes and leave it at that, we can only try to help one another and not judge, that is God's prerogative.
God bless
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: UncleBeau on May 15, 2008, 10:10:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on May 15, 2008, 09:05:21 AM ---That is the reason why I stated again & again that a name or a title is insignificant.
--- End quote ---
Oh really?
John 4:42
42.) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
-Beau
--- End quote ---
I meant to say that the name that we identify with ourself as a believer is insignificant, not all names and titles. That is my mistake for assuming one would know what I truly meant. Let me repeat: I AM NOT talking about all names and titles being of little value ONLY the name one assigns himself because of their belief in Christ.
I just do not understand why anyone would be upset about how a member of Babylon perceives them. I know of Babylonian denominations called "Body of Christ". Do I shun that title because they have created a "stigma" to it? Oh, look...right next to EVERYONE'S name is that very same title! This is why I say that this kind of title is worthless. It seems that all agree it matters what one is inwardly but then some will go off on how they want to be perceived outwardly by a title. Does salt declare "I am Salt? Does light declare "I am Light"? No, they just show and do it. Are we not the "salt of the earth" and "light of the world"? The reason why I stated this creates division because of some people's (not all) comments on how it is evil or dispicable to be called a Christian. If you don't believe me, read this entire thread.
To me, this issue boils down to this:
Does our Lord and Saviour judge us by the name or title we choose for ourselves to identify our beliefs?
I stated no, because Paul states it is what you are inwardly that matters not outwardly. He was talking of a Jew in Romans...but does this not apply to the many titles of the followers of Christ?
Marques
Roy Monis:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on May 10, 2008, 10:32:32 AM ---Marques
Why have you have used my post to misrepresented what and Who I believe?
You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning? If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!
The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.
If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?
Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.
Peace to you
--- End quote ---
Hii! Arcturus
I agree we either keep to Ray's teaching's and the Scriptures or just don't bother. What I said in my post to Marques was in keeping with that teaching and the Scriptures. At Antioch the followers of Christ were named Christian but over the centuries that name has become stigmatized with corruption, deceit, extortion, murder, persecution, immorality etc.etc...I ask myself, does God really want His chosen to associate with such? "The Lake of Fie Chapter V111 ...The Church in Pergamos." makes this point abundantly clear and the Scriptures support it:
"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2Cor.5:16-20).
In the face of this evidence I can't see how they can hold on to their view, but of course that's their choice. I personally think that the name Christian is an idol of the heart something out of Babylon that they don't want to discard, like the Israelites bringing out Egyptian idols when they were called out of Egypt.
I've been accused of causing division. Discussing one's view causes division, how ridiculous can one get I ask you?
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Roy Monis UK on May 15, 2008, 12:57:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: Arcturus on May 10, 2008, 10:32:32 AM ---Marques
Why have you have used my post to misrepresented what and Who I believe?
You say titles are neither good or bad. Have words got no meaning? If one is slandered as being a babe or immature in spiritual matters, then it means something even if the person is not immature or naive in spiritual matters the slander means something. The inference means something even if there is a disclaimer in the beginning which means nothing!
The Title Lord of Heaven and Earth has a meaning. The title Satan has a meaning. The title Christian comes out of Antioch where Christianity as we know it had its beginnings. The teachings of Paul out of Antioch is where Christianity had its beginnings.
If we look to Ray's teachings we see confirmed with meaning that non can come to God except through Christ. God's chosen Elect come out of Christianity as expounded by Ray through his teachings. The elect can not come out of any other doctrine or dogma or title or creed. The Elect have to come out of Christianity just as "the way" came out of Judaism and as Eve came out of Adam, similarly the elect will come out of Christianity. Who has believed our report. Who?
Of course it is most important what is in the heart but this is not a licence to hypocrisy if it is indeed Christ's Spirit that does not feign affection, pretend or ever disguise Who He is. Being called a Christian is an insult but if one wants to decline from confronting, edifying or correcting the person calling one such title, then all and well but let us not pretend that the title has no meaning or significance. It does have both meaning and significance that God calls us to come out of.
Peace to you
--- End quote ---
Hii! Arcturus
I agree we either keep to Ray's teaching's and the Scriptures or just don't bother. What I said in my post to Marques was in keeping with that teaching and the Scriptures. At Antioch the followers of Christ were named Christian but over the centuries that name has become stigmatized with corruption, deceit, extortion, murder, persecution, immorality etc.etc...I ask myself, does God really want His chosen to associate with such? "The Lake of Fie Chapter V111 ...The Church in Pergamos." makes this point abundantly clear and the Scriptures support it:
"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2Cor.5:16-20).
In the face of this evidence I can't see how they can hold on to their view, but of course that's their choice. I personally think that the name Christian is an idol of the heart something out of Babylon that they don't want to discard, like the Israelites bringing out Egyptian idols when they were called out of Egypt.
I've been accused of causing division. Discussing one's view causes division, how ridiculous can one get I ask you?
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
--- End quote ---
Roy,
Did Paul ever stop calling himself a Jew even though the Jews were morally corrupt? No. Was this an idol of his heart? No. So, how is this issue any different than one calling them self a Christian?
No matter what you call yourself, a member of Babylon will always assume the 2 of you are of like mind. They are the ones deceived as we both know. Every name/title that means to follow Christ has a stigma to it. And we both agree that the members of Babylon are the ones that placed this stigma to these titles. But does our Lord judge us by this title or by how we live? I could call myself a Member of the Body of Christ but it would be in vain if I do not follow our Lord and Savior, Jesus.
That is the reason why I said it created division. Some believers think of the title Christian from its original scriptural meaning: follower of Christ. But then others (see the division?) say: that title is evil, don't associate yourself with it. With that line of thinking, you could not call yourself ANYTHING because members of Babylon has desecrated every title/name that is associated with following Christ. What you then have is people confused as to what to call themselves. My posts have been more for our "guests" who may be coming around to the Truth and I do not wish for ANYONE to be a stumblingblock for them. Hope this helps your understanding.
Marques
Deborah-Leigh:
Revelation 2 : 17 He who is able to hear, let him listen to and heed what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes, I will give to eat of the manna that is hidden, and I will give him a white stone with A NEW NAME engraved on the stone, which no one knows or understands except HE WHO RECEIVES IT. 8)
I understand this in the following way. That NEW NAME will not be debatable, divisible or negotiable! Let this therefore settle all variable opinions. :D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version