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Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
SteveB:
nightmare you did an great job with that one!
SteveB:
--- Quote ---My question is; why should we care what people such as this think? Haven't we come out of this evil doctrine?
Just wondering
--- End quote ---
I dont know about everyone else but the reason i posted this was to...
Tit 1:9 Holding fast, in the matter of his teaching, the faithful word, that he may be able both to encourage with his healthful instruction, and, the gainsayers, to refute.
Exposing these teachings for the utter LIES they are should be everyone concern.
Paul and John both called out the people BY NAME who were teaching FALSE doctrine. So i'll do the same.
Just like Rays papers to Kennedy and Hagee, I wanted to show the rest of the forum what LAME arguements these FALSE PROPHETS are teaching.
Peace...Steve
hillsbororiver:
Steve, if you feel the Lord is calling you to seek these people out than who can say you should not, but remember;
Phi 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife railings evil surmisings.
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
and also;
Pro 25:9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbor himself; and discover not a secret to another:
Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
But we are instructed to;
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Steve I hope you take this in the spirit it is given, I only know my own heart and when I would look for others to debate and show them how wrong they are it was my carnal mind doing the thinking, these "debates" ultimately would tie my stomach in knots, frustrating me and I felt I was stunting my spiritual growth. This may not be true for you or others who are going to other sites and confronting their beliefs, but I know the effect it had on me and some others here, so I hope I am not offending you but just giving food for thought.
Peace,
Joe
SteveB:
--- Quote ---Steve, if you feel the Lord is calling you to seek these people out than who can say you should not, but remember;
Phi 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife railings evil surmisings.
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
--- End quote ---
Those are good scriptures, indeed. HOwever I was not 'seeking them out' i never email hanagraff or attempted to debate with him. It would be a 'lost cause' if i did. I just saw this on a website and thought i needed to be called to attention.
My only thing was to show the people on this forum the depths of heresy going on in the 'chruch'.
And as for the 1tim. references go not sure how that applys to me. I'm of no diagreement with the teaching of Ray or Mike or anyother of the elect. I'm of ONE mind, Jesus Christs mind. Maybe i misunderstood your application of those verses?
--- Quote ---and also;
Pro 25:9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbor himself; and discover not a secret to another:
Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
--- End quote ---
The proverbs ref. is good and i'll remember that but this however was no secret it was sent in mass to the public.
Isa ref. i dont think applys in this situation because i'm NOT seeking strife or debate with the elect. ON the contrary this was ment to help build the elect. And as Paul on Mars hill preached of the foolishness of the pagans there so i to preach of the foolishness of my pagan 'christian' brothers.
Rom ref.-not sure what your saying here but i'll assume you ment debate. As i said before debate was not my intention ONLY to expose those who contradict.
--- Quote ---But we are instructed to;
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Steve I hope you take this in the spirit it is given, I only know my own heart and when I would look for others to debate and show them how wrong they are it was my carnal mind doing the thinking, these "debates" ultimately would tie my stomach in knots, frustrating me and I felt I was stunting my spiritual growth. This may not be true for you or others who are going to other sites and confronting their beliefs, but I know the effect it had on me and some others here, so I hope I am not offending you but just giving food for thought.
Peace,
Joe
--- End quote ---
Joe i'm not sure you understood my post so i'll say it again. I WAS NOT DEBATING WITH ANYONE! I to understand the 1Pet. reference and its application.
I do not go to other sites for debates. However ON PUBLIC FORUMS would not be sin to post there about our beliefs. Paul did the same same thing on Mars hill and Mike and Ray both do the same with there web sites. And no you are not offending me.
YOur doing your job as mod. And i thank you for your scriptures and thought for my intentions. I hope you've seen my intentions from this post and things are more clear.
If not pm me. Peace...Steve
Zacman:
Hank Hannagraf touts himself as the "Bible Answer Man".
As someone else said, he has one of the largest orthodox radio ministries in the world.
I can remember several years ago catching a discussion on hell on his program. His guest was Lee Stroble, author of the book a "Case for Christ". (seems like I saw him on TBN resently)
Anyway, I remember them talking on the subject of Hell, and specifically noticed they both seemed to think it was not literal fire.
They referenced passages which talked about being cast into outer darkness, which literal fire would not be.
Their vague conclusion was that the degree of punishment must therefore be differing degrees of separation from God.
I remember this so well, because I though right there, I wish I could get through on their phone line and ask them if they were saying some of the damned (as they call them) would therefore be closer to God than other more wicked people who according to them would be separated farther from God.
I did write Hanagraf a note, and got a form letter responce and a request for a donation. Fact is ever since, I have recieved phone solicitation for money from his ministry, and their mailing list solicitation as well.
I figure, oh well, that's just one less newsletter someone else might have gotten :)
One last thing, if you think Hank's rendition of hell is wacky, you should listen to him try and explain his belief in the trinity...lol it'll rack your brain :)
BR
Zacman
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