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Author Topic: Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...  (Read 14962 times)

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Sorin

  • Guest
Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2006, 02:22:12 PM »

Joe, point well taken and I concur.
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ertsky

  • Guest
Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2006, 03:24:57 PM »

and also let's remember that love requires that we remain faithful to the doctrine of Christ above all else. He that is agreeing with false doctrine after two solid refutations is not going to get a "good on you mate" or gentle conciliation from me.

Rom 16:17  Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Jesus loves me so much, and this is why He sometimes chastises me, it's for my own benefit, it is love

do i say this because i disagree with anyone? no way
do i think i am better than anyone? in no way

but false doctrine is false doctrine and love commands me

2Jo 1:10  if any one doth come unto you, and this teaching doth not bear, receive him not into the house, and say not to him, `Hail!'
2Jo 1:11  for he who is saying to him, `Hail,' hath fellowship with his evil works.

sometimes love appears like this

Mar 10:21  Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

sometimes love appears like this

Joh 2:15  And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Joh 2:16  And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Joh 2:17  And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

many people get it wrong! they think

nice = spiritual
harsh = carnal

that's so very wrong! that is not judging a righteous judgement

nice can be carnal or spiritual
harsh can be carnal or spiritual

heres how it should look

carnal = carnal
spiritual = spiritual

that's why i like to focus mainly on the doctrine not the messenger
the doctrine is either true or false

sometimes i might think "i don't like this dude"
other times i might think "wow what a cool dude"
then i think "who cares what i think" lets check the doctrine.

i just typed this because it's a really big problem when believers don't realise that resisting false doctrine and those that bring it is very very important work.

we have plenty of niceness but we don't have plenty of people paying attention to doctrine. we have plenty of people worried about the social niceties but not enough people studying to show themselves approved of God.

if i am over zealous or harsh defending the truth, God can chasten that out of me easily.
if i am super nice but let false doctrine in then i am in bad shape.

if for every nine comments on a person there is only one comment on that persons doctrine. it should be the other way around.

how different are james and john when viewed according to style and yet when viewed according to doctrine they are of one mind even the mind of Christ.

f
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SteveB

  • Guest
Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2006, 04:08:14 PM »

Quote
We are not trying to change anybody, but rather Exposing Those who contradict. Titus 1:9

SteveB, didn't start this for Hank's benefit, but for ours.


The whole idea of my post was to show how WEAK the arguments of orthodox christianity are. And like Paul says, to expose those that contradict.

I love Hank Hanagraaff. I would do cartwheels if God were to change his mind to the Truth.

Is it possible to call a spade a spade and Love the person? Please read this.

http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

Quote
My original question was "why do we care what this guy (hellfire Hank) thinks?" It is not intended as a condemnation of SteveB at all! I know I am not alone in learning much from many of Steve's posts, and I consider him a Brother in Christ, very thankful for his fellowship in the Forum.


Thank you Joe and i too have learned a lot from your posts including the ones on this thread. I too consider you a Brother in Christ and am glad you are a mod.

Quote
My point was, (and I probably did a good job in screwing it up) is that debating, refuting and challenging other peoples belief system is not always an edifying experience for everyone or even anyone involved. It has been my experience (and Bobby relayed this same feeling) that when we seek to confront heresy we can sometimes do it in a carnal fashion, more so in the vain glory of being "right" rather than sharing spiritual wisdom. It is especially dangerous for the newer folks who have discovered this wonderful treasure which is His Word, yes, we should defend the faith when the situation presents itself but when we are not ready, when we should rather be studying and seeking the fruits of the spirit we can become bogged down and disenchanted by these contests or a lack of discernment in choosing our battles;


Wise counsil there. That being said Christ exposed, Paul exposed, Ray exposes, and Mike exposes. I too will continue to expose. OUt of a pure heart and with the edification of the BODY in mind, always.

YOu are right about being easily puffed up about the new found wisdom given to us in the scriptures.  I fight it everyday; we all fight it.

As i said, I was not debating Hank or anyone else for that matter. My only thing was to show this DAMNABLE, SICK, LOATHESOME, 'hell' doctrine for what it is. And to EDIFY this Body on just how STUPID the ARGUMENTS ARE. NOT because i hate Hank but because I LOVE HANK AND ALL OF YOU!

There are people who come to his forum who are 'on the rocks' over this doctrine and showing them how LAME these arguements are is a blessing to me, and maybe will change minds(Godwilling).
Quote

I believe growing (in spirit) to the point of having pure charity/love for our brothers and sisters and especially our enemies is the highest calling, again I hope this is taken as food for thought and not as a condemnation of anyone. Thank you all for your comments.

Joe


This is so true Joe. The Love of our enemies is our high calling. I love Hank, with God as my witness, I do.

Love does doctrine(as Mike says). I will be more thoughtful in my future posts and thank you for not condeming me.  

Love in the commandment of God,
Steve
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2006, 04:55:06 PM »

Steve, thank you for the kind words my brother, I believe we are of the same mind and seek the same goal.

Joe
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2006, 05:15:15 PM »

Quote from: ertsky
and also let's remember that love requires that we remain faithful to the doctrine of Christ above all else. He that is agreeing with false doctrine after two solid refutations is not going to get a "good on you mate" or gentle conciliation from me.

Rom 16:17  Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Jesus loves me so much, and this is why He sometimes chastises me, it's for my own benefit, it is love

do i say this because i disagree with anyone? no way
do i think i am better than anyone? in no way

but false doctrine is false doctrine and love commands me

2Jo 1:10  if any one doth come unto you, and this teaching doth not bear, receive him not into the house, and say not to him, `Hail!'
2Jo 1:11  for he who is saying to him, `Hail,' hath fellowship with his evil works.

sometimes love appears like this

Mar 10:21  Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

sometimes love appears like this

Joh 2:15  And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Joh 2:16  And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Joh 2:17  And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

many people get it wrong! they think

nice = spiritual
harsh = carnal

that's so very wrong! that is not judging a righteous judgement

nice can be carnal or spiritual
harsh can be carnal or spiritual

heres how it should look

carnal = carnal
spiritual = spiritual

that's why i like to focus mainly on the doctrine not the messenger
the doctrine is either true or false

sometimes i might think "i don't like this dude"
other times i might think "wow what a cool dude"
then i think "who cares what i think" lets check the doctrine.

i just typed this because it's a really big problem when believers don't realise that resisting false doctrine and those that bring it is very very important work.

we have plenty of niceness but we don't have plenty of people paying attention to doctrine. we have plenty of people worried about the social niceties but not enough people studying to show themselves approved of God.

if i am over zealous or harsh defending the truth, God can chasten that out of me easily.
if i am super nice but let false doctrine in then i am in bad shape.

if for every nine comments on a person there is only one comment on that persons doctrine. it should be the other way around.

how different are james and john when viewed according to style and yet when viewed according to doctrine they are of one mind even the mind of Christ.

f


Hi Frank, I hope that you did not think my post reflected an idea we accept any bile thrown our way in the name of "love."

No, what I was trying to do was have people consider their motives when entering into a debate or seeking to go into churches, adversarial chatrooms or message boards with their newfound knowledge. This was never intended to chastise Steve or anyone else.

As a moderator here I have deleted posts and made it known to some "preachers" that this forum will not be a platform to heresy nor will it be a conduit to the indoctrination of our members.

I think we here have had many similar experiences through varying stages of our walk in Him, my own experience as a zealous "newbie" led me into countless debates with friends, family & strangers, I can tell you truthfully that very often it left me feeling tied in knots and sometimes questioning even my core beliefs because His spirit was not my motivator or guide through these exchanges.

Now that I wait for my time to witness it seems that His spirit is with me, giving answers and guiding me to patience and longsuffering, not anger or frustration. I think He would be more pleased with us as we set a good example, be generous with the less fortunate and charitable with all who come into contact with us than winning an argument in a chatroom or worse, suffer loss in our spiritual journey.

Jesus had a well defined mission from God the Father, if anyone has been commissioned by Him to seek debates and strife with others rather than meeting heresy with sound doctrine then by all means they should go and do His will. I happen to believe that most of us would be better off seeking growth in the spirit unto perfection.

Again, these ideas I thought were worth consideration.

Peace Brother,

Joe
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ertsky

  • Guest
Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2006, 05:32:04 PM »

i totally agree with your earlier posts and that last one too Joe.

like SteveB i am glad you are a mod and find You a most thought provoking and trustworthy brother. (also you are always giving a good example of godliness)

on reflection my post might have belonged in a different thread. it seemed totally out of context where it was.

for some reason i just had a sudden urge to exhort anyone reading to make sure they care about doctrine at least as much as they care about peoples feelings.

i gotta watch those sudden urges :)

well blessings to all

and may we all

Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

i think i need to go and listen to some music and play some pool :)

f
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2006, 08:38:08 PM »

Up for a round of 9-ball? You break.

Joe
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ertsky

  • Guest
Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2006, 09:26:50 AM »

Bless you heaps Bob, you are coming through loud and clear bro!

Quote
I want to let the Spirit of Christ lead me in all that I say and do.


on reflection that post of mine appears to be in the wrong thread or all out of context.

i'm just really charged up on the need to include the corrective side of love, maybe my post was for someone not even posting in the thread or maybe...

i've got to learn not to type everything i think LOL!

anyways much love to all

f
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Joey Porter

  • Guest
Re: Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2006, 01:34:20 AM »

Quote from: SteveB
First, Christ, the Creator of the cosmos, clearly communicated hell’s irrevocable reality. In fact, He spent more time talking about hell than He did about heaven.


How casually he just slanders Christ up and down.  Hank certainly knows about the translation issues with the word "Gehenna."  He knows what Gehenna was and is, and He knows that there are several instances in the gospels in which Christ's words have been changed to represent something other than that of which Christ was speaking.  Yet, Hank never takes an issue with it and seems to have no problem doing it himself.

As far as the whole "Christ talked more about hell than about heaven" argument - I used to believe that too, because I had always heard people like Hank spewing it out.  As God began to open my eyes, I decided to look into the issue a little more, so I did a search on Biblegateway.  I searched for the word "heaven" in the gospels, and I looked at every verse and excluded all the verses that said things such as "will not enter the kingdom of heaven," etc.  Then I searched the word "hell," but I also included passages that spoke of "outer darkness" and the "fiery furnace,'' etc.  

I don't remember the final statistics, but let me tell you that the tally was not even close.  It was at least a 3-1 ratio in favor of the kingdom of heaven over "hell," and the outer darkness, fiery furnace, everlasting fire, etc.

Really, anyone who has put even a miniscule amount of deep study into the gospels will come to see that Christ spoke far more about the kingdom of heaven than He did about this fabled "hell."  

It's amazing that some of these teachings are so easily proven false, and yet people still teach them, and millions more just buy right into it.  But, it's all God's will.  I know that, I just can't figure out why... :?



Quote from: SteveB
Furthermore, the concept of choice demands that we believe in hell. Without hell, there is no choice. Without choice, heaven would not be heaven; heaven would be hell. The righteous would inherit a counterfeit heaven, and the unrighteous would be incarcerated in heaven against their wills, which would be a torture worse than hell. Imagine spending a lifetime voluntarily distanced from God only to find yourself involuntarily dragged into His loving presence for all eternity.


What an illogical and warped view this is.  For as much as Hank talks about "common sense" in this paper, he sure doesn't use much with this argument.  So, people would be tortured more by being in "heaven" than being in "hell?"  Eternity in the presence of God would be more tormenting than eternity in torment?  This is just silly.

Quote from: SteveB
The alternative to hell would be worse than hell itself in that humans made in the image of God would be stripped of freedom and forced to worship God against their will.


Well then, I wonder what his interpretation of Philippians 2:10-11 would be. That passage is always a catch 22 for all the free-will banner wavers who insist that no one will be "forced" to worship God, and yet also insist that millions of people will burn in hell forever.

Quote from: SteveB
Finally, common sense regarding justice dictates that there must be a hell. Without hell, the wrongs of Hitler’s Holocaust would never be righted. Justice would be impugned if, after slaughtering six million Jews, Hitler merely died in the arms of his mistress with no eternal consequences.


According to your theology, Hank, all those Jews are right now probably wishing they were back in the midst of the Holocaust because they're now and forevermore being tormented far worse.  Of corse, they'd be even more miserable if they were forced to be in God's loving presence for all eternity... :roll: But at least we know that Hitler is being tormented worse than they are.  I'm sure they're happy to know that, too.

(I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with this...)

Quote from: SteveB
First, common sense tells us that a God of love and justice does not arbitrarily annihilate a portion of the crowning jewels of His creation. He graciously provides everyone the freedom to choose between redemption and rebellion. It would be a horrific evil to think that God would create people with freedom of choice and then annihilate them because of their choices.


Preach on, brotha!  This makes perfect sense...in Hank's world.

Quote from: SteveB
Furthermore, common sense also leads us to the conclusion that nonexistence is not better than existence since nonexistence is nothing at all.


More precious wisdom here.  In fact, if I ever happen to need any type of surgery, I think I'll just tell the docs to skip the anesthesia.  I will insist to them that it is far worse for me to have no knowledge of what is going on, and it is much more merciful for me to be left awake and consciously aware of what they're doing to my body.  The pain of the operation will pale in comparison to the pain of not even being aware of what's going on. That would be true torment. This is the reasoning of the bible answer man.
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