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Hank Hanegraaff says theres a 'hell'...
ertsky:
i totally agree with your earlier posts and that last one too Joe.
like SteveB i am glad you are a mod and find You a most thought provoking and trustworthy brother. (also you are always giving a good example of godliness)
on reflection my post might have belonged in a different thread. it seemed totally out of context where it was.
for some reason i just had a sudden urge to exhort anyone reading to make sure they care about doctrine at least as much as they care about peoples feelings.
i gotta watch those sudden urges :)
well blessings to all
and may we all
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
i think i need to go and listen to some music and play some pool :)
f
hillsbororiver:
Up for a round of 9-ball? You break.
Joe
ertsky:
Bless you heaps Bob, you are coming through loud and clear bro!
--- Quote --- I want to let the Spirit of Christ lead me in all that I say and do.
--- End quote ---
on reflection that post of mine appears to be in the wrong thread or all out of context.
i'm just really charged up on the need to include the corrective side of love, maybe my post was for someone not even posting in the thread or maybe...
i've got to learn not to type everything i think LOL!
anyways much love to all
f
Joey Porter:
--- Quote from: SteveB --- First, Christ, the Creator of the cosmos, clearly communicated hell’s irrevocable reality. In fact, He spent more time talking about hell than He did about heaven.
--- End quote ---
How casually he just slanders Christ up and down. Hank certainly knows about the translation issues with the word "Gehenna." He knows what Gehenna was and is, and He knows that there are several instances in the gospels in which Christ's words have been changed to represent something other than that of which Christ was speaking. Yet, Hank never takes an issue with it and seems to have no problem doing it himself.
As far as the whole "Christ talked more about hell than about heaven" argument - I used to believe that too, because I had always heard people like Hank spewing it out. As God began to open my eyes, I decided to look into the issue a little more, so I did a search on Biblegateway. I searched for the word "heaven" in the gospels, and I looked at every verse and excluded all the verses that said things such as "will not enter the kingdom of heaven," etc. Then I searched the word "hell," but I also included passages that spoke of "outer darkness" and the "fiery furnace,'' etc.
I don't remember the final statistics, but let me tell you that the tally was not even close. It was at least a 3-1 ratio in favor of the kingdom of heaven over "hell," and the outer darkness, fiery furnace, everlasting fire, etc.
Really, anyone who has put even a miniscule amount of deep study into the gospels will come to see that Christ spoke far more about the kingdom of heaven than He did about this fabled "hell."
It's amazing that some of these teachings are so easily proven false, and yet people still teach them, and millions more just buy right into it. But, it's all God's will. I know that, I just can't figure out why... :?
--- Quote from: SteveB ---Furthermore, the concept of choice demands that we believe in hell. Without hell, there is no choice. Without choice, heaven would not be heaven; heaven would be hell. The righteous would inherit a counterfeit heaven, and the unrighteous would be incarcerated in heaven against their wills, which would be a torture worse than hell. Imagine spending a lifetime voluntarily distanced from God only to find yourself involuntarily dragged into His loving presence for all eternity.
--- End quote ---
What an illogical and warped view this is. For as much as Hank talks about "common sense" in this paper, he sure doesn't use much with this argument. So, people would be tortured more by being in "heaven" than being in "hell?" Eternity in the presence of God would be more tormenting than eternity in torment? This is just silly.
--- Quote from: SteveB ---The alternative to hell would be worse than hell itself in that humans made in the image of God would be stripped of freedom and forced to worship God against their will.
--- End quote ---
Well then, I wonder what his interpretation of Philippians 2:10-11 would be. That passage is always a catch 22 for all the free-will banner wavers who insist that no one will be "forced" to worship God, and yet also insist that millions of people will burn in hell forever.
--- Quote from: SteveB ---Finally, common sense regarding justice dictates that there must be a hell. Without hell, the wrongs of Hitler’s Holocaust would never be righted. Justice would be impugned if, after slaughtering six million Jews, Hitler merely died in the arms of his mistress with no eternal consequences.
--- End quote ---
According to your theology, Hank, all those Jews are right now probably wishing they were back in the midst of the Holocaust because they're now and forevermore being tormented far worse. Of corse, they'd be even more miserable if they were forced to be in God's loving presence for all eternity... :roll: But at least we know that Hitler is being tormented worse than they are. I'm sure they're happy to know that, too.
(I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with this...)
--- Quote from: SteveB ---First, common sense tells us that a God of love and justice does not arbitrarily annihilate a portion of the crowning jewels of His creation. He graciously provides everyone the freedom to choose between redemption and rebellion. It would be a horrific evil to think that God would create people with freedom of choice and then annihilate them because of their choices.
--- End quote ---
Preach on, brotha! This makes perfect sense...in Hank's world.
--- Quote from: SteveB ---Furthermore, common sense also leads us to the conclusion that nonexistence is not better than existence since nonexistence is nothing at all.
--- End quote ---
More precious wisdom here. In fact, if I ever happen to need any type of surgery, I think I'll just tell the docs to skip the anesthesia. I will insist to them that it is far worse for me to have no knowledge of what is going on, and it is much more merciful for me to be left awake and consciously aware of what they're doing to my body. The pain of the operation will pale in comparison to the pain of not even being aware of what's going on. That would be true torment. This is the reasoning of the bible answer man.
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